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Not a great comparison. I've never heard of a toddler accidentally murdering someone with a fire extinguisher, yet that's an everyday occurrence with guns.

AdrianB1 5y ago
Is it, really? Are there any statistics to back this up?
leephillips 5y ago
Really? Show us the link for yesterday’s occurrence.
- kevincrane 5y ago
  This took me 15 seconds to find, here's a 2-year old and a 4-year old shot yesterday because of a gun lying around at home. https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/marietta-man-arrested-after-child-shoots-self-toddler-with-gun https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/marietta-man-arrested-after...
  - leephillips 5y ago
    That happened on Monday. Today is Thursday. Also, it wasn’t a “murder” (I’ll take a killing, but the victim did not die.) EDIT: I can’t help be curious about what’s in the mind of someone who is so blatantly dishonest. Right at the top it says “Published 2 days ago”, and in the second paragraph it says “Monday”. Is the idea that you assume no one will actually take a look at the link?
    - oblio 5y ago
      Just because it happened slightly earlier doesn't diminish his point, which is that it's a common occurrence.
      - NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
        It isn't a common occurrence. There are 330,000,000 people in the U.S. There are more lightning deaths (not strikes) than toddler-firearms killings.
    - aflag 5y ago
      So your point is that it is not that bad because it really only happen once every couple days? I mean, let's say it happens once a month or once a year. Is it worth it? Are guns preventing more deaths than they are causing?
      - leephillips 5y ago
        No, neither that nor any of the other countless things that I did not say are not my point. My point is that the claim that a toddler kills someone with a gun every day is false.
        kevincrane 5y ago
        What's the appropriate frequency for a child to accidentally kill or maim someone before it becomes "okay"?
        leephillips 5y ago
        It can never be okay. What an astonishingly absurd and gruesome notion.
        aflag 5y ago
        Yes, the original post was not trying to precisely inform the frequency, just that it's not a once in a generation occurrence, but rather something that happens regularly. By trying to refute the frequency, you're completely missing the argument. That's what me and other people are saying.
        leephillips 5y ago
        In order to have a rational and productive discussion about policy one needs to have some kind of handle on reality, as well as a minimum of truthfulness and respect for the people you’re talking to. Overstating the incidence of an event by a factor of 20 means you don’t have a handle on reality. Deliberately lying about news events means you’re not truthful. Putting words in people’s mouths and imparting inhumane motivations to them means you lack respect. All of these things happened in just this handful of comments, and, no, I don‘t think I’m missing anything at all.
    - kevincrane 5y ago
      > I can’t help be curious about what’s in the mind of someone who is so blatantly dishonest. Mostly lies. My mind is just swimming in them, it's hard to think about anything else tbh
- Throwawayaerlei 5y ago
  Indeed. Given that a toddler isn't capable of "murder," we're talking accidents. Of which there were 486 lethal ones in the US in 2019, the last year for which the CDC has collated the data. Pretty sure there were more than 121 lethal accidents caused by people older than toddlers. Hint: stop digging, admit you're wrong.
  - leephillips 5y ago
    The actual rate of gun deaths caused a toddler (age <= 3) firing a gun was 15 for 2015, in 13 of which the toddler shot himself.¹ True, “murder” is not the right term, but I wasn’t quibbling about that. I’m not sure “accident” is the right term, either, as in every case an adult committed a horrible crime in allowing the child access to the loaded weapon. [1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/14/peopl...
  - kelnos 5y ago
    If there were 486 toddler gun deaths, then on average, those occurred 1.33 times per day. The frequency of gun-related toddler deaths is literally "every day".
    - leephillips 5y ago
      No one said anything like there being “486 toddler gun deaths”. Much less that many deaths caused by a toddler firing a gun, which was the original subject.
      - kelnos 5y ago
        Huh? The parent said there were "486 fatal ones", didn't they?
        leephillips 5y ago
        486 lethal gun accidents, total. Meaning people of all ages. You're just trolling, aren't you? I guess I can expect a comment now along the lines of “Oh yeah? So 486 deaths a year is OK with you as long as they’re not all toddlers?”

AdrianB1 5y ago

Is it, really? Are there any statistics to back this up?

leephillips 5y ago

Really? Show us the link for yesterday’s occurrence.

kevincrane 5y ago
This took me 15 seconds to find, here's a 2-year old and a 4-year old shot yesterday because of a gun lying around at home. https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/marietta-man-arrested-after-child-shoots-self-toddler-with-gun https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/marietta-man-arrested-after...
- leephillips 5y ago
  That happened on Monday. Today is Thursday. Also, it wasn’t a “murder” (I’ll take a killing, but the victim did not die.) EDIT: I can’t help be curious about what’s in the mind of someone who is so blatantly dishonest. Right at the top it says “Published 2 days ago”, and in the second paragraph it says “Monday”. Is the idea that you assume no one will actually take a look at the link?
  - oblio 5y ago
    Just because it happened slightly earlier doesn't diminish his point, which is that it's a common occurrence.
    - NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
      It isn't a common occurrence. There are 330,000,000 people in the U.S. There are more lightning deaths (not strikes) than toddler-firearms killings.
  - aflag 5y ago
    So your point is that it is not that bad because it really only happen once every couple days? I mean, let's say it happens once a month or once a year. Is it worth it? Are guns preventing more deaths than they are causing?
    - leephillips 5y ago
      No, neither that nor any of the other countless things that I did not say are not my point. My point is that the claim that a toddler kills someone with a gun every day is false.
      - kevincrane 5y ago
        What's the appropriate frequency for a child to accidentally kill or maim someone before it becomes "okay"?
        leephillips 5y ago
        It can never be okay. What an astonishingly absurd and gruesome notion.
        aflag 5y ago
        Yes, the original post was not trying to precisely inform the frequency, just that it's not a once in a generation occurrence, but rather something that happens regularly. By trying to refute the frequency, you're completely missing the argument. That's what me and other people are saying.
        leephillips 5y ago
        In order to have a rational and productive discussion about policy one needs to have some kind of handle on reality, as well as a minimum of truthfulness and respect for the people you’re talking to. Overstating the incidence of an event by a factor of 20 means you don’t have a handle on reality. Deliberately lying about news events means you’re not truthful. Putting words in people’s mouths and imparting inhumane motivations to them means you lack respect. All of these things happened in just this handful of comments, and, no, I don‘t think I’m missing anything at all.
  - kevincrane 5y ago
    > I can’t help be curious about what’s in the mind of someone who is so blatantly dishonest. Mostly lies. My mind is just swimming in them, it's hard to think about anything else tbh
Throwawayaerlei 5y ago
Indeed. Given that a toddler isn't capable of "murder," we're talking accidents. Of which there were 486 lethal ones in the US in 2019, the last year for which the CDC has collated the data. Pretty sure there were more than 121 lethal accidents caused by people older than toddlers. Hint: stop digging, admit you're wrong.
- leephillips 5y ago
  The actual rate of gun deaths caused a toddler (age <= 3) firing a gun was 15 for 2015, in 13 of which the toddler shot himself.¹ True, “murder” is not the right term, but I wasn’t quibbling about that. I’m not sure “accident” is the right term, either, as in every case an adult committed a horrible crime in allowing the child access to the loaded weapon. [1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/14/peopl...
- kelnos 5y ago
  If there were 486 toddler gun deaths, then on average, those occurred 1.33 times per day. The frequency of gun-related toddler deaths is literally "every day".
  - leephillips 5y ago
    No one said anything like there being “486 toddler gun deaths”. Much less that many deaths caused by a toddler firing a gun, which was the original subject.
    - kelnos 5y ago
      Huh? The parent said there were "486 fatal ones", didn't they?
      - leephillips 5y ago
        486 lethal gun accidents, total. Meaning people of all ages. You're just trolling, aren't you? I guess I can expect a comment now along the lines of “Oh yeah? So 486 deaths a year is OK with you as long as they’re not all toddlers?”