6 ms·

There is a big difference between the local video playback and the streamed video playback on the older model. The new model seems to bring the two in line.

by spuz 5y ago

There is a big difference between the local video playback and the streamed video playback on the older model. The new model seems to bring the two in line. iPhone 12 Pro Max Video Playback: 20 iPhone 12 Pro Max Video Playback (streamed): 12 iPhone 13 Pro Max Video Playback: 28 iPhone 13 Pro Max Video Playback (streamed): 25 As far as I know, the new models are slightly thicker and have a higher capacity battery which would explain the increase from 20 to 28. However, I can't explain why streamed video playback has more than doubled. Perhaps they simply fixed a bug?

LolWolf 5y ago
Maybe a hw decoder? (These already exist, but I mean, really tightly integrated with the browser.) Or some other offloading to hardware? That would be my best guess
- cromka 5y ago
  They did say during the conference that the new chip had a new video encoder/decider, so that sounds plausible.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    Maybe just more efficient since the A14 already had AV1 and HEVC support. https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/igpu-apple_a14-180 https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/igpu-apple_a14-180
    - cornstalks 5y ago
      > the A14 already had AV1 Uh, I'm gonna need to see a reputable citation for that claim.
      - klipklop 5y ago
        Yeah I tried to find another source and could not find anything. Does anybody else know? I just see a lot of posts complaining about CPU usage with AV1 on a M1 macbook.
    - photojosh 5y ago
      The cinematic mode is done by recording a depth map (calculated using the ISP and Neural Engine?) alongside the regular video. On older phones you could do this using the SDK, but iirc it was a much lower resolution depth map (like 480p or less?). Given that they've also added ProRes encode/decode, it's likely fair to assume that they've redone the entire codec hardware. So yeah, this is my long-winded way of agreeing with you that it is indeed more efficient.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bydo 5y ago
  I would think the newer 5G modem would help, too.
  - nicce 5y ago
    Maybe. 5G still uses more power than 4G over long duration, if both are enough for streaming. 5G power usage benefits come when you download something, and it simply takes less time.
    - rodiger 5y ago
      Maybe that means it spends less time buffering so smaller total power footprint?
    - stouset 5y ago
      Can’t you achieve the same results then by pretending that one long stream is just a bunch of independent chunks and download them separately in bursts? No need to trickle it the entire time.
      - KptMarchewa 5y ago
        Afaik that's how video streaming works. You can text it in YouTube and look at buffer length for example.
        bch 5y ago
        Edit: my objection is incorrect. We’re in fact saying the same thing. I misread a previous post :/ Not if the broadcast is (eg) HLS[0], so I think the proper answer is: “it depends.” [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Live_Streaming?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Live_Streaming?wprov=sfti...
        bjustin 5y ago
        I am surprised to see someone saying HLS wouldn't work this way. I'm not up to speed on the latest in HLS, but when I used it circa ten years ago, HLS worked by providing parts of a stream as individual video files, so I'd expect this is more true for HLS than a single-file-as-a-stream, not less. Videos were divided into fixed-length files, e.g. 10 seconds each. The playlist file saying what video files to use could list all of the file names up front for every provided quality level.
- Matthias247 5y ago
  Sure they have hw decoders. But they are used in all cases, and get fed the same input. Either some software optimization how network is used or a different modem (potentially doing also more TCP offload stuff) seems more likely.
cromka 5y ago
The 8h difference would be rather attributed to the dynamic refresh rate.
me_me_me 5y ago
Or maybe it was a random hardcoded performance target. Next version improve it artificially by x% by simply changing the hardcoded var. And boast you device is so much better It might sound like a tinfoil comment but apple was already caught underclocking older devices 'for the good of users'
- KoftaBob 5y ago
  There's a big difference between under-clocking phones with older batteries to prevent random shutoff, and what you're claiming.
  - azinman2 5y ago
    And this is exactly where I feel HN had really gone downhill. The quality of the comments keeps decreasing. There’s plenty of technical information out there on the underclocking to prevent reboot issue, and years ago I would have expected this audience to be well versed in it before commenting. All good things just come to an end, I suppose. The question is where to go instead?
    - daveilers 5y ago
      I find that https://lobste.rs https://lobste.rs has similar technical stories I enjoy. Their account/comment system (a tree of trust based who invited whom to the site) does a good job of limiting drive-by negativity and other unpleasantries. I don't have an account there yet due to being shy and not knowing many techy persons IRL I might get an invite from. (If anyone wants to invite me I'd appreciate it)
    - adar 5y ago
      The comment was quickly flagged by other users and is now dead. I'm not sure the hysteria is warranted, you're never going to find a public site where nobody ever posts anything dumb.
    - me_me_me 5y ago
      Yeah, this place is staggeringly quickly heading towards reddit clone. Marley suggesting something akin to planned obsolescence get hive mind downvoted. Yar har capitalism and apple. Apple releases same product for years now, them having a strategy for x years forward is not outrageous claim
xnx 5y ago
Aggressive pre-caching so the wireless modem isn't turned-on as long?
Kognito 5y ago
Perhaps they’re assuming a cinematic frame rate of 24fps for streaming video and matching the refresh rate to that versus whatever refresh rate an iPhone 12 Pro has - guessing 60hz? Still seems a big increase but maybe the combination of the variable refresh display, larger battery and refined 5nm node (TSMC 5NP) all add up to something substantial? I was wondering if this was also factoring 5G in given last year’s 5G modems were noted as particularly power hungry. I’m guessing Apple is testing on WiFi though.
- judge2020 5y ago
  5g modems are still power-hungry which is why iPhone will still default to '5G Auto' which uses LTE most of the time, and switches to 5g for data-hungry tasks.
spoonjim 5y ago
The variable refresh rate is what enables the huge battery life improvement. The iPhone 12 has to update its screen 60 times per second, even though movies are shot at 24 frames per second. That means it's showing you the same frame 2 or 3 times, but initiating an entire redraw operation to do so. The new screen can just leave the image up for 1/24th of a second and then draw the next frame.
- rektide 5y ago
  the numbers shown compare video, streamed, versus video downloaded. this is specifically an improvement on video streaming. i don't see where this theory that variable refresh rate would make a difference would come from. there may be variable refresh rate differences! i just don't think that's what this comparison is highlighting.
  - BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
    > i don't see where this theory that variable refresh rate would make a difference would come from People are comparing between the 13 and 13 Pro which get the same battery life for audio playback. There are very few other stated differences between them.
slownews45 5y ago
They highlighted dynamic refresh rate on screen. So screen can run at 30FPS (half of normal speed) if you are streaming 30FPS content (which many folks do). Or even 24FPS (which now won't need to be converted - nice!).
- gpt5 5y ago
  None of these factors explain why they closed the large gap between offline and online video playback
dougmwne 5y ago
I think it is about half due to variable refresh rate and less than half due to hardware efficiency improvements, and maybe 10% due to a larger battery. The 12 and 12 Pro got 11 hours of streaming playback, the 13 gets 15 hours with it's larger battery and more efficient hardware, while the 13 Pro gets 20 hours with it's variable refresh rate. It appears that the battery on the 13 and 13 Pro are close in size since they both get 75 hours of music playback. The battery is slightly larger on the 13 than the 12 which got 65 hours of music. (I assume hardware efficiency would have very little effect on AAC decoding at this point, there couldn't have been much left to optimize.) So all in all, looks like variable refresh will be a potentially very impressive feature, both for smoother UI and better battery life.
- BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
  > So all in all, looks like variable refresh will be a potentially very impressive feature, both for smoother UI and better battery life. And I think coming soon to macOS Monterey too. If we thought the M1 MBPs had impressive battery life at launch...
  - cr__ 5y ago
    I think you’re thinking of “adaptive sync”, which is more of a gaming thing and only works when the app is fullscreened.
    - BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
      > I think you’re thinking of “adaptive sync” Adaptive sync and variable refresh rate are the same thing. > only works when the app is fullscreened Video of the monterey beta shows it works without being fullscreened. https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/o1954n/adaptive_sync_working_on_macos_monterey_beta_m1/ https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/o1954n/adaptive_... I don't know to what extent the display itself needs to be different, but hopefully Apple planned ahead.
      - y4mi 5y ago
tommymachine 5y ago
1/4 of a millimeter increased thickness isn't exactly a ton of space for battery expansion. Comes to a bit less than 3.1 cm^3 (less due to corners which are "safe for kids").

by spuz 5y ago

LolWolf 5y ago

Maybe a hw decoder? (These already exist, but I mean, really tightly integrated with the browser.) Or some other offloading to hardware? That would be my best guess

cromka 5y ago
They did say during the conference that the new chip had a new video encoder/decider, so that sounds plausible.
- judge2020 5y ago
  Maybe just more efficient since the A14 already had AV1 and HEVC support. https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/igpu-apple_a14-180 https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/igpu-apple_a14-180
  - cornstalks 5y ago
    > the A14 already had AV1 Uh, I'm gonna need to see a reputable citation for that claim.
    - klipklop 5y ago
      Yeah I tried to find another source and could not find anything. Does anybody else know? I just see a lot of posts complaining about CPU usage with AV1 on a M1 macbook.
  - photojosh 5y ago
    The cinematic mode is done by recording a depth map (calculated using the ISP and Neural Engine?) alongside the regular video. On older phones you could do this using the SDK, but iirc it was a much lower resolution depth map (like 480p or less?). Given that they've also added ProRes encode/decode, it's likely fair to assume that they've redone the entire codec hardware. So yeah, this is my long-winded way of agreeing with you that it is indeed more efficient.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bydo 5y ago
I would think the newer 5G modem would help, too.
- nicce 5y ago
  Maybe. 5G still uses more power than 4G over long duration, if both are enough for streaming. 5G power usage benefits come when you download something, and it simply takes less time.
  - rodiger 5y ago
    Maybe that means it spends less time buffering so smaller total power footprint?
  - stouset 5y ago
    Can’t you achieve the same results then by pretending that one long stream is just a bunch of independent chunks and download them separately in bursts? No need to trickle it the entire time.
    - KptMarchewa 5y ago
      Afaik that's how video streaming works. You can text it in YouTube and look at buffer length for example.
      - bch 5y ago
        Edit: my objection is incorrect. We’re in fact saying the same thing. I misread a previous post :/ Not if the broadcast is (eg) HLS[0], so I think the proper answer is: “it depends.” [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Live_Streaming?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Live_Streaming?wprov=sfti...
        bjustin 5y ago
        I am surprised to see someone saying HLS wouldn't work this way. I'm not up to speed on the latest in HLS, but when I used it circa ten years ago, HLS worked by providing parts of a stream as individual video files, so I'd expect this is more true for HLS than a single-file-as-a-stream, not less. Videos were divided into fixed-length files, e.g. 10 seconds each. The playlist file saying what video files to use could list all of the file names up front for every provided quality level.
Matthias247 5y ago
Sure they have hw decoders. But they are used in all cases, and get fed the same input. Either some software optimization how network is used or a different modem (potentially doing also more TCP offload stuff) seems more likely.

cromka 5y ago

The 8h difference would be rather attributed to the dynamic refresh rate.

me_me_me 5y ago

Or maybe it was a random hardcoded performance target. Next version improve it artificially by x% by simply changing the hardcoded var. And boast you device is so much better It might sound like a tinfoil comment but apple was already caught underclocking older devices 'for the good of users'

KoftaBob 5y ago
There's a big difference between under-clocking phones with older batteries to prevent random shutoff, and what you're claiming.
- azinman2 5y ago
  And this is exactly where I feel HN had really gone downhill. The quality of the comments keeps decreasing. There’s plenty of technical information out there on the underclocking to prevent reboot issue, and years ago I would have expected this audience to be well versed in it before commenting. All good things just come to an end, I suppose. The question is where to go instead?
  - daveilers 5y ago
    I find that https://lobste.rs https://lobste.rs has similar technical stories I enjoy. Their account/comment system (a tree of trust based who invited whom to the site) does a good job of limiting drive-by negativity and other unpleasantries. I don't have an account there yet due to being shy and not knowing many techy persons IRL I might get an invite from. (If anyone wants to invite me I'd appreciate it)
  - adar 5y ago
    The comment was quickly flagged by other users and is now dead. I'm not sure the hysteria is warranted, you're never going to find a public site where nobody ever posts anything dumb.
  - me_me_me 5y ago
    Yeah, this place is staggeringly quickly heading towards reddit clone. Marley suggesting something akin to planned obsolescence get hive mind downvoted. Yar har capitalism and apple. Apple releases same product for years now, them having a strategy for x years forward is not outrageous claim

xnx 5y ago

Aggressive pre-caching so the wireless modem isn't turned-on as long?

Kognito 5y ago

Perhaps they’re assuming a cinematic frame rate of 24fps for streaming video and matching the refresh rate to that versus whatever refresh rate an iPhone 12 Pro has - guessing 60hz? Still seems a big increase but maybe the combination of the variable refresh display, larger battery and refined 5nm node (TSMC 5NP) all add up to something substantial? I was wondering if this was also factoring 5G in given last year’s 5G modems were noted as particularly power hungry. I’m guessing Apple is testing on WiFi though.

judge2020 5y ago
5g modems are still power-hungry which is why iPhone will still default to '5G Auto' which uses LTE most of the time, and switches to 5g for data-hungry tasks.

spoonjim 5y ago

The variable refresh rate is what enables the huge battery life improvement. The iPhone 12 has to update its screen 60 times per second, even though movies are shot at 24 frames per second. That means it's showing you the same frame 2 or 3 times, but initiating an entire redraw operation to do so. The new screen can just leave the image up for 1/24th of a second and then draw the next frame.

rektide 5y ago
the numbers shown compare video, streamed, versus video downloaded. this is specifically an improvement on video streaming. i don't see where this theory that variable refresh rate would make a difference would come from. there may be variable refresh rate differences! i just don't think that's what this comparison is highlighting.
- BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
  > i don't see where this theory that variable refresh rate would make a difference would come from People are comparing between the 13 and 13 Pro which get the same battery life for audio playback. There are very few other stated differences between them.

slownews45 5y ago

They highlighted dynamic refresh rate on screen. So screen can run at 30FPS (half of normal speed) if you are streaming 30FPS content (which many folks do). Or even 24FPS (which now won't need to be converted - nice!).

gpt5 5y ago
None of these factors explain why they closed the large gap between offline and online video playback

dougmwne 5y ago

I think it is about half due to variable refresh rate and less than half due to hardware efficiency improvements, and maybe 10% due to a larger battery. The 12 and 12 Pro got 11 hours of streaming playback, the 13 gets 15 hours with it's larger battery and more efficient hardware, while the 13 Pro gets 20 hours with it's variable refresh rate. It appears that the battery on the 13 and 13 Pro are close in size since they both get 75 hours of music playback. The battery is slightly larger on the 13 than the 12 which got 65 hours of music. (I assume hardware efficiency would have very little effect on AAC decoding at this point, there couldn't have been much left to optimize.) So all in all, looks like variable refresh will be a potentially very impressive feature, both for smoother UI and better battery life.

BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
> So all in all, looks like variable refresh will be a potentially very impressive feature, both for smoother UI and better battery life. And I think coming soon to macOS Monterey too. If we thought the M1 MBPs had impressive battery life at launch...
- cr__ 5y ago
  I think you’re thinking of “adaptive sync”, which is more of a gaming thing and only works when the app is fullscreened.
  - BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
    > I think you’re thinking of “adaptive sync” Adaptive sync and variable refresh rate are the same thing. > only works when the app is fullscreened Video of the monterey beta shows it works without being fullscreened. https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/o1954n/adaptive_sync_working_on_macos_monterey_beta_m1/ https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/o1954n/adaptive_... I don't know to what extent the display itself needs to be different, but hopefully Apple planned ahead.
    - y4mi 5y ago

tommymachine 5y ago

1/4 of a millimeter increased thickness isn't exactly a ton of space for battery expansion. Comes to a bit less than 3.1 cm^3 (less due to corners which are "safe for kids").