5 ms·

I use a trained neural network I keep between my ears... Recall is sometimes fuzzy with age, but it works well enough, and I don't have to worry about external

by Syonyk 5y ago

I use a trained neural network I keep between my ears... Recall is sometimes fuzzy with age, but it works well enough, and I don't have to worry about external queries violating my various rights nearly as much as with tech companies. At this point, I think every piece of modern consumer electronics ought to be considered hostile until proven benign. I've worked with enough of them over the years, on different ends, to no longer trust any of them. I'm also old enough to remember the before-times - when there wasn't the technology to track us everywhere, or, when we did have something breadcrumbing, it wasn't being automatically uploaded to whoever, wherever, etc. My first question, though, would be "Why?" What value do you get out of tracking your location with any great detail that self hosting it would be of much value? However, various cheap GPS loggers and Google Earth import probably would do a lot of what you're looking for.

flanbiscuit 5y ago
I recently set my google location history to auto-delete. At first I wanted to keep it recording my location history forever because "just in case" I needed to know where I was for something that was extremely unimportant. Overall, I've looked at it only handful of times over the many years it has been running so in the end it really helps Google more than it helps me. I might even just turn it off completely. I'm slowly shirking this data-hoarding, "I might need it one day", mentality.
- Syonyk 5y ago
  I love Google Location History. If you're trying to make a point to someone about how much of a problem data collection, use, abuse, etc, is - link them to the place they can view their own history. It's even more fun if you're with them and can watch the expression of utter horror form as they realize just what, exactly, literally everywhere they've been can tell someone else about them. "Hey, isn't that the kink club out there?"
  - genewitch 5y ago
    I check this from time to time and mine has always been completely blank. Even on my phone when I search for "tires in <city>" it assumes I mean a city in the east coast of the US. Maps/Waze are only marginally better, showing me results 170+ miles from my current location, generally. I use trackmenot and ad nauseam plugins on my main computer, so my ads are always 100% irrelevant - if I see them at all. Ad nauseam clicks every ad it sees, and stores the banner. It tries to track how many dollars of ad spend its wasted on your behalf, too. I'm somewhere north of $17k at this point lifetime clicks. I know I'm not winning this fight but I can make it more hilarious for me in the meantime.
    - iamstupidsimple 5y ago
      That $17k would've either been rejected as ad fraud in the best case, and just ended up funding the companies you hate at worst.
      - genewitch 5y ago
        That's assuming they can dis-aggregate my traffic at the F5 gateway well enough[0], otherwise they're just saying all traffic out of that rack in Dallas, TX is invalid. A personal web browser clicking ads on pages i visit doesn't feel very fraudulent. [0] google routinely can't, and i stopped using search because it made me do photo captchas every time. If google can't, i'm guessing other people are going to have less luck.
        iamstupidsimple 5y ago
        Being Captcha'd likey means that those systems know not to trust your clicks. I seriously doubt you're doing any damage here, and at worst you're helping the companies you dislike.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Would they be horrified of going to a kink club? I feel like the type of person that would go to one, especially these days, would not care.
  - Kiro 5y ago
    I've not seen that reaction at all. Everyone gets really excited when I show them.
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  Do we have reason to believe that auto-delete means anything other than "hide it from me, please?"
  - KingMachiavelli 5y ago
    I believe according to their privacy policy and from past press statements deleting the data does trigger a real wipe of the data but I think there is a up to 30 day delay (not sure exactly) (wiping data from thousands of servers is actually kind of difficult). If your threat level is NSA/nation state then this isn't good enough since they probably could get a copy before Google deletes it but it is probably enough to be useless for low level LE.
  - Y_Y 5y ago
    At least in the EU, they run the (qualified) risk of a collosal statutory fine. It wouldn't be easy to get them audited (particularly in Ireland where the Data Protection Commission favours discretion over valour), and they'd have to actually get caught. Assuming that they didn't hide the evidence, and the auditors found it, and the necessary hoops were jumped, it could be financially and reputationally painful, even for big G.
  - endless1234 5y ago
    If so, why believe "don't save location history" would mean anything either?
    - sodality2 5y ago
      Difference being "don't save" would mean not being ingested at all; if it is sent to google, a stink could be made (perhaps by sniffing netreqs, looking at GPS requests, etc). Once it's in Google, us peons would have no way to verify any claim.
      - goodpoint 5y ago
        No. "don't save" does not mean "don't send to google". All geolocation based on GSM cells and wifi sends your location continuously.
- MomoXenosaga 5y ago
  At the risk of sounding paranoid but how do we know if they actually pause/delete it?
chrononaut 5y ago
> I use a trained neural network I keep between my ears... Recall is sometimes fuzzy with age, but it works well enough, and I don't have to worry about external queries violating my various rights nearly as much as with tech companies. I don't understand the point you're making (unless you're being snarky.) You recognize that most other users of Google Location History can do the same? > My first question, though, would be "Why?" What value do you get out of tracking your location with any great detail that self hosting it would be of much value? Another way of framing is what utility Location History can provide to users. Some use cases are casual ("Where did I go exactly on this trip two years ago?", "Where did I eat when I was in X city 9 months ago?", etc) while other people have personal uses for it: https://towardsdatascience.com/analyzing-my-google-location-history-d3a5c56c7b70 https://towardsdatascience.com/analyzing-my-google-location-... > However, various cheap GPS loggers and Google Earth import probably would do a lot of what you're looking for. That would probably work, as well perhaps another OSM-based mapping application. I don't know the value of all that extra metadata which is computed though (as highlighted in the above article).
- Syonyk 5y ago
  > I don't understand the point you're making (unless you're being snarky.) I am. I'm referring to my brain in a "tech industry buzzword" way. It is, technically speaking, a trained neural network. Just a biological one, not a silicon/code based one. I happen to like it, and it can also do things like tell the difference between a low moon in the sky through a smoke haze and a traffic light. > Another way of framing is what utility Location History can provide to users. "If there are any positives, then the technology is worth using!" style thinking misses, entirely, the concept of opportunity cost, and the various downsides. I won't argue that it's not pretty cool to see everywhere you've been - but it's also an exceedingly detailed record of who you are, and anyone who claims it can be suitably anonymized is full of crap (see the Grindr Bishop for a solid case study here). Where I really start to get upset, though, is that there's no opt-in for this, other than some vague, generic, "nobody reads this and it doesn't say anything anyone would understand anyway" clickthroughs. Android doesn't have a, "Would you like us to keep a record of your location and everywhere you've been? You can review it later and see what cool places you've been!" sort of opt-in. It just does it. Google clearly is getting some value from that data, and it's not at all clear what it is.
nbzso 5y ago
But, but this is the only way to deliver consumer products. This is profitable for corporations and shareholders and users have "nothing to hide" and love it. Did you realize that the world is a step away from total Panopticon (https://shorturl.at/mCJK2 https://shorturl.at/mCJK2). The "digital natives" don't care at all. The "millenials" are just ignorant. The "X-ers" are fighting to stay relevant and "young". The "boomers" are screaming from the trenches, but the echo is responding with the usual "OK. Boomer". It is over. This is the Great Reset, created by Davos Elites and embraced by Corporations, Governments and "modern" people of the world. This is the direct result of corrupted societies which abandoned classical education and liberal arts long time ago.

by Syonyk 5y ago

flanbiscuit 5y ago

I recently set my google location history to auto-delete. At first I wanted to keep it recording my location history forever because "just in case" I needed to know where I was for something that was extremely unimportant. Overall, I've looked at it only handful of times over the many years it has been running so in the end it really helps Google more than it helps me. I might even just turn it off completely. I'm slowly shirking this data-hoarding, "I might need it one day", mentality.

Syonyk 5y ago
I love Google Location History. If you're trying to make a point to someone about how much of a problem data collection, use, abuse, etc, is - link them to the place they can view their own history. It's even more fun if you're with them and can watch the expression of utter horror form as they realize just what, exactly, literally everywhere they've been can tell someone else about them. "Hey, isn't that the kink club out there?"
- genewitch 5y ago
  I check this from time to time and mine has always been completely blank. Even on my phone when I search for "tires in <city>" it assumes I mean a city in the east coast of the US. Maps/Waze are only marginally better, showing me results 170+ miles from my current location, generally. I use trackmenot and ad nauseam plugins on my main computer, so my ads are always 100% irrelevant - if I see them at all. Ad nauseam clicks every ad it sees, and stores the banner. It tries to track how many dollars of ad spend its wasted on your behalf, too. I'm somewhere north of $17k at this point lifetime clicks. I know I'm not winning this fight but I can make it more hilarious for me in the meantime.
  - iamstupidsimple 5y ago
    That $17k would've either been rejected as ad fraud in the best case, and just ended up funding the companies you hate at worst.
    - genewitch 5y ago
      That's assuming they can dis-aggregate my traffic at the F5 gateway well enough[0], otherwise they're just saying all traffic out of that rack in Dallas, TX is invalid. A personal web browser clicking ads on pages i visit doesn't feel very fraudulent. [0] google routinely can't, and i stopped using search because it made me do photo captchas every time. If google can't, i'm guessing other people are going to have less luck.
      - iamstupidsimple 5y ago
        Being Captcha'd likey means that those systems know not to trust your clicks. I seriously doubt you're doing any damage here, and at worst you're helping the companies you dislike.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Would they be horrified of going to a kink club? I feel like the type of person that would go to one, especially these days, would not care.
- Kiro 5y ago
  I've not seen that reaction at all. Everyone gets really excited when I show them.
jjoonathan 5y ago
Do we have reason to believe that auto-delete means anything other than "hide it from me, please?"
- KingMachiavelli 5y ago
  I believe according to their privacy policy and from past press statements deleting the data does trigger a real wipe of the data but I think there is a up to 30 day delay (not sure exactly) (wiping data from thousands of servers is actually kind of difficult). If your threat level is NSA/nation state then this isn't good enough since they probably could get a copy before Google deletes it but it is probably enough to be useless for low level LE.
- Y_Y 5y ago
  At least in the EU, they run the (qualified) risk of a collosal statutory fine. It wouldn't be easy to get them audited (particularly in Ireland where the Data Protection Commission favours discretion over valour), and they'd have to actually get caught. Assuming that they didn't hide the evidence, and the auditors found it, and the necessary hoops were jumped, it could be financially and reputationally painful, even for big G.
- endless1234 5y ago
  If so, why believe "don't save location history" would mean anything either?
  - sodality2 5y ago
    Difference being "don't save" would mean not being ingested at all; if it is sent to google, a stink could be made (perhaps by sniffing netreqs, looking at GPS requests, etc). Once it's in Google, us peons would have no way to verify any claim.
    - goodpoint 5y ago
      No. "don't save" does not mean "don't send to google". All geolocation based on GSM cells and wifi sends your location continuously.
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
At the risk of sounding paranoid but how do we know if they actually pause/delete it?

chrononaut 5y ago

> I use a trained neural network I keep between my ears... Recall is sometimes fuzzy with age, but it works well enough, and I don't have to worry about external queries violating my various rights nearly as much as with tech companies. I don't understand the point you're making (unless you're being snarky.) You recognize that most other users of Google Location History can do the same? > My first question, though, would be "Why?" What value do you get out of tracking your location with any great detail that self hosting it would be of much value? Another way of framing is what utility Location History can provide to users. Some use cases are casual ("Where did I go exactly on this trip two years ago?", "Where did I eat when I was in X city 9 months ago?", etc) while other people have personal uses for it: https://towardsdatascience.com/analyzing-my-google-location-history-d3a5c56c7b70 https://towardsdatascience.com/analyzing-my-google-location-... > However, various cheap GPS loggers and Google Earth import probably would do a lot of what you're looking for. That would probably work, as well perhaps another OSM-based mapping application. I don't know the value of all that extra metadata which is computed though (as highlighted in the above article).

Syonyk 5y ago
> I don't understand the point you're making (unless you're being snarky.) I am. I'm referring to my brain in a "tech industry buzzword" way. It is, technically speaking, a trained neural network. Just a biological one, not a silicon/code based one. I happen to like it, and it can also do things like tell the difference between a low moon in the sky through a smoke haze and a traffic light. > Another way of framing is what utility Location History can provide to users. "If there are any positives, then the technology is worth using!" style thinking misses, entirely, the concept of opportunity cost, and the various downsides. I won't argue that it's not pretty cool to see everywhere you've been - but it's also an exceedingly detailed record of who you are, and anyone who claims it can be suitably anonymized is full of crap (see the Grindr Bishop for a solid case study here). Where I really start to get upset, though, is that there's no opt-in for this, other than some vague, generic, "nobody reads this and it doesn't say anything anyone would understand anyway" clickthroughs. Android doesn't have a, "Would you like us to keep a record of your location and everywhere you've been? You can review it later and see what cool places you've been!" sort of opt-in. It just does it. Google clearly is getting some value from that data, and it's not at all clear what it is.

nbzso 5y ago

But, but this is the only way to deliver consumer products. This is profitable for corporations and shareholders and users have "nothing to hide" and love it. Did you realize that the world is a step away from total Panopticon (https://shorturl.at/mCJK2 https://shorturl.at/mCJK2). The "digital natives" don't care at all. The "millenials" are just ignorant. The "X-ers" are fighting to stay relevant and "young". The "boomers" are screaming from the trenches, but the echo is responding with the usual "OK. Boomer". It is over. This is the Great Reset, created by Davos Elites and embraced by Corporations, Governments and "modern" people of the world. This is the direct result of corrupted societies which abandoned classical education and liberal arts long time ago.