6 ms·

I just wasted half an hour reading through the threads. The gist is that NixOS has some weird dependency management that overrides Home Assistant's in a way th

• kop316 5y ago
  NixOS offers reproducible builds, which is why their package manager is the way it is. pip doesn't seem to offer very good support for that: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326#issuecomment-860064953 https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326#issuecomment-86... (I don't use pip so I don't know enough to comment on it) The NixOS also offered several ways to prevent just "go[ing] to HA for support and will be unable to get it": https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326#issuecomment-860050496 https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326#issuecomment-86... https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326#issuecomment-860064953 https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326#issuecomment-86... Also, if you look, the HA dev has the same complaint about Fedora: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326#issuecomment-860051291 https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326#issuecomment-86... So it is not just NixOS's "weird dependency management". The threat to relicense the software came after the NixOS devs offering several ways to prevent more burden, and after the HA dev discovered Fedora packages it too: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326#issuecomment-860066976 https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326#issuecomment-86... (Feel free to scroll up from here to find the other two linked comments)
• soraminazuki 5y ago
  > The gist is that NixOS has some weird dependency management that overrides Home Assistant's In other words, NixOS does what every other distro do and package every dependency required to run the application beforehand. HA devs appear to be claiming in almost every single one of the linked discussions that the Nix package is broken, but I can't find them pointing to any concrete evidence or specifics. I doubt they have any, because they can't have tried it out in a matter of few hours. > And NixOS is not done repackaging HA HA devs appears to be making a whole point out of this too, but it's quite overblown considering that the example being listed is a dependency that was introduced only days prior [1]. > HA doesn't want to support that and was pretty clear about it. Did you see the Nix devs' proposal early on about requiring users to set the option `config.ambee.acceptThatThisPackageIsNotSupportedByUpstreamDevelopersAndIWillGoToNixpkgsToReportAnyIssues = true` [2] in order to be able to use the package? That was met with immediate hostility from HA devs. > Then this Jorg person got all up in arms and threw a hiss fit all over the internet and everybody got tense. That's likely not the impression people get from looking at any of the mentioned links, which is presumably why the prior HN thread mentioned in GP seems to have blown up. If anything, it makes me think twice about using HA myself because I fear this is the standard response I'd get from HA devs if I ever dare file an issue. [1]: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126319#issuecomment-860877888 https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126319#issuecomment-86... [2]: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326#issuecomment-860064953 https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326#issuecomment-86...
  • arcbyte 5y ago
    > Did you see the Nix devs' proposal early on about requiring users to set the option `config.ambee.acceptThatThisPackageIsNotSupportedByUpstreamDevelopersAndIWillGoToNixpkgsToReportAnyIssues = true` I did see that but it's somewhat irrelevant because the person that would know what that means would already know where to ask the right question. And the person that has no idea what they're doing would just type 'true' and not know why. I'm in the latter camp btw. Things have to be mostly idiot proof for me. When they're not I'm going to ask questions where I think the most experts are. If I have a problem with HA, I dont care where I got it from or what configs I had to do surgery on, I'm gonna post my question in the HA forums. To be clear if I was trying to use HA on NixOs at this very moment, I would have no idea what questions are appropriate where except that my problem is with HA so thats where I'd ask it. > That's likely not the impression people get from looking at any of the mentioned links We're all different, but as a person ignorant of NixOs and HA, it's the impression I came away with.
    • soraminazuki 5y ago
      > irrelevant because the person that would know what that means would already know where to ask the right question How can people not know where to ask questions when all the people who'd ask has been told exactly where in a single short English sentence? What's not clear about "accept that this package is not supported by upstream developers and I will go to Nixpkgs to report any issues"? > it's the impression I came away with It's not a reasonable one on two counts. Let's go over the statement again: > Then this Jorg person got all up in arms and threw a hiss fit all over the internet and everybody got tense. First, he did not appear "all over the internet." The are only two places where I can find him discussing the topic online: in the Nixpkgs GitHub issue and a single Home Assistant thread where he sought to get clarifications from upstream regarding licensing policies. Second, that he "threw a hiss fit" is taking your imagination to a real stretch. In no single comment did he express anger or frustration. All he ever did in his very few comments was 1. decline to drop the package from Nixpkgs and 2. ask about Home Assistant licensing. Take that in contrast with the behavior of HA devs where almost every single comment in the linked threads is provocative, sarcastic, and condescending, making evidence-free claims of incompetence and breakage at every step of the way right from the start.