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Debt is the same as savings. "How Savings Has Defined Human History" somehow doesn't get people worked up.

chrismealy 15y ago
(Graeber's book looks great. I just ordered it.)
anonymoushn 15y ago
Are you sure? I'm fairly certain that if I accumulate savings in the form of some non-debt-backed currency and keep it buried in a box it won't be the same as debt. If we still want to regard that as debt, I could instead buy commodities and keep them in a warehouse, but I think there would be some temptation to say that "they are not savings because they are not currency."
- chrismealy 15y ago
  If you can tomatoes and save them for winter you've accumulated assets or inventory or whatever, but not savings.
jhancock 15y ago
I started reading Graeber's book [1] 3 days ago. I'm only about 1/3 into it. The author is an anthropologist and tells his story from this perspective. So far, If I understand correctly what I'm reading, I think the author would not agree that 'savings' is the opposite of 'debt'. I also don't see the author as trying to get the reader worked up. Its a very interesting and though provoking read thus far. [1] - http://www.amazon.com/Debt-First-5-000-Years/dp/1933633867 http://www.amazon.com/Debt-First-5-000-Years/dp/1933633867
- chrismealy 15y ago
  I regret sounding critical. The book looks really interesting.
jswinghammer 15y ago
Yeah but I wouldn't care if someone saved money in my name. The government takes out loans based on the idea that the people will service the debt.
yason 15y ago
Do you mean from the creditor's viewpoint or is there some economical concept or theory I haven't heard of?
- derobert 15y ago
  Yes, that's from the creditor's viewpoint. Its a statement of the economics accounting identity I=S. Actually, it's even more fundamental than that. If you wish to have (different, or perishable) goods/services tomorrow by forgoing them today (i.e., increase savings) you must find someone willing to do the opposite (who'd then be in debt to you). Money functions as an abstraction to hide the vast majority of this complexity. When you lend your money to a bank (deposit it, buy a CD or bond, etc.), you become a creditor to the bank; the bank a debtor. They then lend that money to others; this the economically central function of a bank to match savers and borrowers.

(Graeber's book looks great. I just ordered it.)

Are you sure? I'm fairly certain that if I accumulate savings in the form of some non-debt-backed currency and keep it buried in a box it won't be the same as debt. If we still want to regard that as debt, I could instead buy commodities and keep them in a warehouse, but I think there would be some temptation to say that "they are not savings because they are not currency."

chrismealy 15y ago
If you can tomatoes and save them for winter you've accumulated assets or inventory or whatever, but not savings.

jhancock 15y ago

I started reading Graeber's book [1] 3 days ago. I'm only about 1/3 into it. The author is an anthropologist and tells his story from this perspective. So far, If I understand correctly what I'm reading, I think the author would not agree that 'savings' is the opposite of 'debt'. I also don't see the author as trying to get the reader worked up. Its a very interesting and though provoking read thus far. [1] - http://www.amazon.com/Debt-First-5-000-Years/dp/1933633867 http://www.amazon.com/Debt-First-5-000-Years/dp/1933633867

chrismealy 15y ago
I regret sounding critical. The book looks really interesting.

jswinghammer 15y ago

Yeah but I wouldn't care if someone saved money in my name. The government takes out loans based on the idea that the people will service the debt.

yason 15y ago

Do you mean from the creditor's viewpoint or is there some economical concept or theory I haven't heard of?

derobert 15y ago
Yes, that's from the creditor's viewpoint. Its a statement of the economics accounting identity I=S. Actually, it's even more fundamental than that. If you wish to have (different, or perishable) goods/services tomorrow by forgoing them today (i.e., increase savings) you must find someone willing to do the opposite (who'd then be in debt to you). Money functions as an abstraction to hide the vast majority of this complexity. When you lend your money to a bank (deposit it, buy a CD or bond, etc.), you become a creditor to the bank; the bank a debtor. They then lend that money to others; this the economically central function of a bank to match savers and borrowers.