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"At Heroku, we discussed a real issue they were having and halfway through the interview we were both up at the whiteboard bouncing things back and forth, drawi

"At Heroku, we discussed a real issue they were having and halfway through the interview we were both up at the whiteboard bouncing things back and forth, drawing things up. At the end of the Heroku interview we both knew how the other worked and how we would work together." I find this kind of odd and correct me if you think I'm off because I'm not a programmer. But for any company to give you a problem that they are having and for you to help them solve it... shouldn't you get compensation for that (outside of a job position)? That's basically free consultation. It's like how some companies give design tests for designers, which is basically spec work. Even if they don't choose you, they could still take some of the ideas and implement it. It's one thing to give a general problem and analyze your problem solving skills and knowledge (as well as to verify your resume).

joshuacc 15y ago
There is a difference between talking about how to solve a problem, and actually implementing the solution. Talking with a designer about the problems they would be facing and about how they would approach some of them is very different than having them implement the solution (a complete design). I suspect the same applies to programmers. As long as you're not asking for the implementation (working code), it's probably fine.
- thomasgerbe 15y ago
  "There is a difference between talking about how to solve a problem, and actually implementing the solution." Is there? You are giving your expertise with the intention of improving their situation and potentially saving them time. It's not uncommon to get paid to consult about problems that a team is facing without actively implementing it yourself. How is this any different?
  - joshuacc 15y ago
    There is if you are being hired as a developer. If you are being hired as an internal consultant, that's a different situation.
bugsy 15y ago
Thomas, yes, what you mention is a problem. I have had quite a few job interviews that were free consultations. It's real painful when you have to fly out on your own dime for this, something I no longer will do at all. If the company can't afford to cover interview costs, it's not profitable and should be avoided. The experience the other guy described of it working out in the end does happen sometimes but it is a minority of cases. A lot of companies will contact domain experts and consultants and want them to come out for a chat. Sometimes they want to talk on the phone for 6 hrs. It's a huge red flag when they pull out specific problems that they are having trouble with and which are for their company, and start asking for a detailed technical analysis of how to solve it. Especially if they take written notes or video tape the interview. Usually what happens is their guy later implements the solution you give them.
bradly 15y ago
It was actually a problem that they were already in the process of fixing, so they weren't gaining any value from my ideas. It turned out my solution a came up with was the same solution they were implementing. I definitely didn't feel like I was doing free work for them. It was pretty high level.

joshuacc 15y ago

There is a difference between talking about how to solve a problem, and actually implementing the solution. Talking with a designer about the problems they would be facing and about how they would approach some of them is very different than having them implement the solution (a complete design). I suspect the same applies to programmers. As long as you're not asking for the implementation (working code), it's probably fine.

thomasgerbe 15y ago
"There is a difference between talking about how to solve a problem, and actually implementing the solution." Is there? You are giving your expertise with the intention of improving their situation and potentially saving them time. It's not uncommon to get paid to consult about problems that a team is facing without actively implementing it yourself. How is this any different?
- joshuacc 15y ago
  There is if you are being hired as a developer. If you are being hired as an internal consultant, that's a different situation.

bugsy 15y ago

Thomas, yes, what you mention is a problem. I have had quite a few job interviews that were free consultations. It's real painful when you have to fly out on your own dime for this, something I no longer will do at all. If the company can't afford to cover interview costs, it's not profitable and should be avoided. The experience the other guy described of it working out in the end does happen sometimes but it is a minority of cases. A lot of companies will contact domain experts and consultants and want them to come out for a chat. Sometimes they want to talk on the phone for 6 hrs. It's a huge red flag when they pull out specific problems that they are having trouble with and which are for their company, and start asking for a detailed technical analysis of how to solve it. Especially if they take written notes or video tape the interview. Usually what happens is their guy later implements the solution you give them.

bradly 15y ago

It was actually a problem that they were already in the process of fixing, so they weren't gaining any value from my ideas. It turned out my solution a came up with was the same solution they were implementing. I definitely didn't feel like I was doing free work for them. It was pretty high level.