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In California this is a criminal offense and the DA for the County where he is will have a bounced check unit. Contact the DA. It is a slam dunk. Do. Not. Thre

In California this is a criminal offense and the DA for the County where he is will have a bounced check unit. Contact the DA. It is a slam dunk. Do. Not. Threaten. To. Go. To. The. DA. "I'm going to the DA if you don't pay me" is stoopit. That's blackmail and you will be the one in trouble not him. Just file charges.

badclient 15y ago
Thanks. The question is which DA to contact. His company is registered with a San Francisco address while most of his past cases are in Marin County. Also, I'm in NYC.
- aaronblohowiak 15y ago
  SF, CA
ScottBurson 15y ago
IANAL, but I don't see how this fits the legal definition of blackmail, which, as I understand it, requires that the blackmailer not have a right to the property they are attempting to extort from the victim. Creditors routinely threaten to report debtors to the credit bureaus -- is that blackmail?? I think if you said "I'm going to the DA if you don't pay me double the amount you owe me", that would be blackmail. Admittedly, the suggestion to just go ahead and file charges doesn't seem like bad advice to me.
- srl 15y ago
  [IANAL] Of course, it's also blackmail to threaten to approach the police about crime B if crime A is not rectified - that A is a crime is irrelevant. Not that it's applicable here.
bryanlarsen 15y ago
IANAL, but I have been way too intimately involved in something. There are many types of threats that can be considered criminal harassment, but threatening to call the cops is not one of them (at least in Canada). I presume the same would apply to blackmail. Calling the cops is what you're supposed to do, so threatening to do what you're supposed to do should not be a crime. It might be different if you were trying to collect something that wasn't yours, but... Another thing I learned was to never accept any sort of repayment scheme. Once you do that, it then becomes a civil matter rather than a criminal matter. Again, I'm not a lawyer, and this may apply to Canada only.
- bryanlarsen 15y ago
  in another thread thucydides says: Note that each act separately is fine: you can demand money; you can threaten to report a crime. You just can't make the report conditional on receiving money. So in essence, you're saying that we're both right.
adammichaelc 15y ago
(Not legal advice, just my opinion) Not true. It would only be blackmail if he didn't legally owe the money. Threatening to go to the DA is very appropriate. In fact, it's what you should do so that he knows how serious it is. I would say something like, "If there's not a cashier's check in my hand by x date, I will file criminal charges with the DA." It would be the polite thing to do, so that he's not blindsided with a criminal record.
- chops 15y ago
  It would be the polite thing to do, so that he's not blindsided with a criminal record. Politeness is not warranted in this situation. This guy sounds like a defacto asshole and deserves to be in jail.
  - badclient 15y ago
    Out of politeness, I told the guy that date x would be the last day I would be available to do any minor fixes or work for him due to continued non-payment. What does he do? Use that against me to argue that the project didn't really finish until the date in my courtesy email and that he's got another few days to pay me and make good on the returned checks. Of course his own arbitrary deadline for when payment is due have long come and gone with no payment. And don't even get me started about the returned checks impact on me financially. My account went from positive ~4k to about -5,900. My checking account is couple weeks from being reported if I don't get in the pos. I'm bouncing back but wanna do everything possible to keep others from going through the same shit. More on that soon as I launch a site warning others of this.
- thucydides 15y ago
  Not correct. If you threaten to expose a crime unless you are paid money, you have committed blackmail. It is blackmail even if you have a legal right to demand the money. Note that each act separately is fine: you can demand money; you can threaten to report a crime. You just can't make the report conditional on receiving money.
  - 15y ago
mootothemax 15y ago
Surely by your definition, any Cease & Desist letter is also blackmail?
- thucydides 15y ago
  No, C+Ds usually contain threats of CIVIL action, not threats to report criminal behavior to the government.

badclient 15y ago

Thanks. The question is which DA to contact. His company is registered with a San Francisco address while most of his past cases are in Marin County. Also, I'm in NYC.

aaronblohowiak 15y ago
SF, CA

ScottBurson 15y ago

IANAL, but I don't see how this fits the legal definition of blackmail, which, as I understand it, requires that the blackmailer not have a right to the property they are attempting to extort from the victim. Creditors routinely threaten to report debtors to the credit bureaus -- is that blackmail?? I think if you said "I'm going to the DA if you don't pay me double the amount you owe me", that would be blackmail. Admittedly, the suggestion to just go ahead and file charges doesn't seem like bad advice to me.

srl 15y ago
[IANAL] Of course, it's also blackmail to threaten to approach the police about crime B if crime A is not rectified - that A is a crime is irrelevant. Not that it's applicable here.

bryanlarsen 15y ago

IANAL, but I have been way too intimately involved in something. There are many types of threats that can be considered criminal harassment, but threatening to call the cops is not one of them (at least in Canada). I presume the same would apply to blackmail. Calling the cops is what you're supposed to do, so threatening to do what you're supposed to do should not be a crime. It might be different if you were trying to collect something that wasn't yours, but... Another thing I learned was to never accept any sort of repayment scheme. Once you do that, it then becomes a civil matter rather than a criminal matter. Again, I'm not a lawyer, and this may apply to Canada only.

bryanlarsen 15y ago
in another thread thucydides says: Note that each act separately is fine: you can demand money; you can threaten to report a crime. You just can't make the report conditional on receiving money. So in essence, you're saying that we're both right.

adammichaelc 15y ago

(Not legal advice, just my opinion) Not true. It would only be blackmail if he didn't legally owe the money. Threatening to go to the DA is very appropriate. In fact, it's what you should do so that he knows how serious it is. I would say something like, "If there's not a cashier's check in my hand by x date, I will file criminal charges with the DA." It would be the polite thing to do, so that he's not blindsided with a criminal record.

chops 15y ago
It would be the polite thing to do, so that he's not blindsided with a criminal record. Politeness is not warranted in this situation. This guy sounds like a defacto asshole and deserves to be in jail.
- badclient 15y ago
  Out of politeness, I told the guy that date x would be the last day I would be available to do any minor fixes or work for him due to continued non-payment. What does he do? Use that against me to argue that the project didn't really finish until the date in my courtesy email and that he's got another few days to pay me and make good on the returned checks. Of course his own arbitrary deadline for when payment is due have long come and gone with no payment. And don't even get me started about the returned checks impact on me financially. My account went from positive ~4k to about -5,900. My checking account is couple weeks from being reported if I don't get in the pos. I'm bouncing back but wanna do everything possible to keep others from going through the same shit. More on that soon as I launch a site warning others of this.
thucydides 15y ago
Not correct. If you threaten to expose a crime unless you are paid money, you have committed blackmail. It is blackmail even if you have a legal right to demand the money. Note that each act separately is fine: you can demand money; you can threaten to report a crime. You just can't make the report conditional on receiving money.
- 15y ago

mootothemax 15y ago

Surely by your definition, any Cease & Desist letter is also blackmail?

thucydides 15y ago
No, C+Ds usually contain threats of CIVIL action, not threats to report criminal behavior to the government.