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I'm kind of with your point but also not. You don't have to actually be a victim of cancer or even know anyone personally who has cancer, to help cure it. To sa

I'm kind of with your point but also not. You don't have to actually be a victim of cancer or even know anyone personally who has cancer, to help cure it. To say "it's privilege" is a weird way of phrasing it. It's just a person who needs to do better user research before building a product.

GavinMcG 5y ago
We're not talking about cancer. We're talking about things that involve human psychology and behavior. Privilege is why they didn't do "better user research": the person making the proposal doesn't even consider those they would impact.
- Moodles 5y ago
  > We're not talking about cancer. We're talking about things that involve human psychology and behavior. Yes, it's a slightly different field. I don't see how that changes the point. The point is that plenty of people who aren't first hand victims of something still come up with solutions for it. This is just an example of someone who didn't. I don't really see how framing it about privileged vs not privileged inventors is helpful. All that matters is the technology ideas and how best to come up with them. And we all agree user research is good.
  - GavinMcG 5y ago
    Bringing up privilege is important because someone who is aware of it can cut off this sort of mistake before they make them. We indeed agree that user research is good. So I'd imagine we agree that it's good to think "I should put the perspective and experiences of my users front and center." And that's exactly what it takes to not be privileged.
SavantIdiot 5y ago
I see what you're saying, but let me try to explain what I see as the difference between the two situations. Curing cancer is about biology, chemistry, etc. It literally does not require any experience having cancer as you stated. Just lots of research and college education. However, if you said you were going to write an app to cure "the mental anxiety associated with having cancer," and you've never had cancer, but in your mind the cure is to strap on VR goggles, isolate yourself and play minecraft, then yes, that would be "privilege". You're assuming you have the solution but you have zero lived experience. That's the difference as I see it. (Obviously I don't mean "you" as in you personally.)
- Moodles 5y ago
  Psychologists help cure anxiety, depression, addiction, etc. all the time without actually suffering from it themselves. They're "privileged" not to suffer from it themselves or even necessarily have any friends or family who suffer from it. They just do good user research before creating a solution presumably. Also, conversely, plenty of people who have "lived experience" of how they cured their anxiety with a cult religion or some placebo diet or something aren't necessarily very helpful experts for other people either. So I just don't see how framing the conversation about who is or isn't privileged is really helpful?
  - mcguire 5y ago
    "They just do good user research before creating a solution presumably." That would kind of be the point, right? Rather than saying, "Just do X", they try to understand the problem first and don't just throw out ideas that solve what they a-priori think the problem is while also being what they think of as easy to implement.
    - Moodles 5y ago
      Yup.
  - imperialdrive 5y ago
    Just curious if you know any psychologists that fit into this category? I know a handful pretty well and all specialize in areas they have direct experience with. They also 'experience' their clients pain, similar to a masseuse. Perhaps it's like being a developer without hands on experience with css, networking, or virtualization etc... You can still be a really good developer, but you probably can't say you're great at it or be a worthwhile resource for teaching others.
    - Moodles 5y ago
      Not personally, but I'm sure there's a mix of both types.
  - 5y ago

GavinMcG 5y ago

We're not talking about cancer. We're talking about things that involve human psychology and behavior. Privilege is why they didn't do "better user research": the person making the proposal doesn't even consider those they would impact.

Moodles 5y ago
> We're not talking about cancer. We're talking about things that involve human psychology and behavior. Yes, it's a slightly different field. I don't see how that changes the point. The point is that plenty of people who aren't first hand victims of something still come up with solutions for it. This is just an example of someone who didn't. I don't really see how framing it about privileged vs not privileged inventors is helpful. All that matters is the technology ideas and how best to come up with them. And we all agree user research is good.
- GavinMcG 5y ago
  Bringing up privilege is important because someone who is aware of it can cut off this sort of mistake before they make them. We indeed agree that user research is good. So I'd imagine we agree that it's good to think "I should put the perspective and experiences of my users front and center." And that's exactly what it takes to not be privileged.

SavantIdiot 5y ago

I see what you're saying, but let me try to explain what I see as the difference between the two situations. Curing cancer is about biology, chemistry, etc. It literally does not require any experience having cancer as you stated. Just lots of research and college education. However, if you said you were going to write an app to cure "the mental anxiety associated with having cancer," and you've never had cancer, but in your mind the cure is to strap on VR goggles, isolate yourself and play minecraft, then yes, that would be "privilege". You're assuming you have the solution but you have zero lived experience. That's the difference as I see it. (Obviously I don't mean "you" as in you personally.)

Moodles 5y ago
Psychologists help cure anxiety, depression, addiction, etc. all the time without actually suffering from it themselves. They're "privileged" not to suffer from it themselves or even necessarily have any friends or family who suffer from it. They just do good user research before creating a solution presumably. Also, conversely, plenty of people who have "lived experience" of how they cured their anxiety with a cult religion or some placebo diet or something aren't necessarily very helpful experts for other people either. So I just don't see how framing the conversation about who is or isn't privileged is really helpful?
- mcguire 5y ago
  "They just do good user research before creating a solution presumably." That would kind of be the point, right? Rather than saying, "Just do X", they try to understand the problem first and don't just throw out ideas that solve what they a-priori think the problem is while also being what they think of as easy to implement.
  - Moodles 5y ago
    Yup.
- imperialdrive 5y ago
  Just curious if you know any psychologists that fit into this category? I know a handful pretty well and all specialize in areas they have direct experience with. They also 'experience' their clients pain, similar to a masseuse. Perhaps it's like being a developer without hands on experience with css, networking, or virtualization etc... You can still be a really good developer, but you probably can't say you're great at it or be a worthwhile resource for teaching others.
  - Moodles 5y ago
    Not personally, but I'm sure there's a mix of both types.
- 5y ago