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I mean, I'm with Snow here. I think the response is a bit poor in that "well, we don't know that this is safe, so this proposal is obviously crazy and does no o

I mean, I'm with Snow here. I think the response is a bit poor in that "well, we don't know that this is safe, so this proposal is obviously crazy and does no one any good." Maybe we could find out if it's safe? It doesn't seem obvious to me that it's a bad idea.

simmerup 5y ago
What happens when a rowdy prisoner breaks the VR headset and is suddenly trapped alone in a box for 10 years. What state do you think he’ll be in when he’s let out? Ridiculous idea
- FeepingCreature 5y ago
  Maybe you could give them a replacement edit: and I mean, they could still use voicechat in the meanwhile, you can build that in the wall so it's pretty hard to break
  - simmerup 5y ago
    And when they break the replacement? Or they piss off the guards so the replacement somehow takes months to get to them? It’s cruel.
  - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    >Maybe you could give them a replacement but isn't this supposed to be happening in America?
  - mcguire 5y ago
    What happens if VR goggles turn out not to be the most wonderful thing ever? Well, it's still cheaper and I'm sure eventually VR technology will get better...
- nemo44x 5y ago
  Lobotomy was used for this purpose for many years to make unruly prisoners docile. The practice is still legal (and doesn't use an ice pick any longer), however it is rarely used today. There are however an array of medications that could be administrated to force compliance and do not cause a permanent state like a lobotomy would. But yes, the entire idea is dehumanizing in my opinion.
  - simmerup 5y ago
    Dehumanising is the Silicon Valley status quo.
    - nixpulvis 5y ago
      And it's spreading!
  - FeepingCreature 5y ago
    Prison is dehumanizing. Any gain in dehumanization may well be made up for by the incredibly reduction in rape.
ModernMech 5y ago
The idea is obviously bad because it’s ostensibly designed to protect prisoners by reducing the opportunity for prisoner-on-prisoner violence. A noble goal, but what this fails to recognize is a good chunk of prison violence originates from guards, including sexual assault. I fear giving guards free reign to isolated prisoners would have the exact opposite effect of reducing violence in prison.
- nemo44x 5y ago
  That sounds like a pretty easy problem to solve with auditable surveillance that is redundantly deployed and has realtime ML algorithms that "watch" it.
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    And this surveillance system would be controlled by…
    - nemo44x 5y ago
      Multiple independent auditors?
      - ModernMech 5y ago
        That could work but at the end of the day it’s the guards who have physical control of the surveillance system. We would have to rely on this other system (powered by ML — who designed this system? - and independent auditors) working for prisoners instead of for the guards when anything goes wrong (sorry the recording malfunctioned during the exact period you claim you were assaulted). Unfortunately prisoners are usually on the losing end of systems designed by their jailers, as they lack strong advocacy and a role in designing the system itself.
      - mcguire 5y ago
        I thought this was supposed to be cheaper?
  - 5y ago
mcguire 5y ago
Technically, the response is more like "Well, we have reasons to believe that this idea is dangerous and it doesn't actually solve any problems. In fact, the only advantage it does have is to give some pseudo-intellectual who doesn't understand any of the issues the warm, fuzzy feeling that he's smarter than everyone else." I mean really, he calculated the price of the prisoner's toilet?
probably_wrong 5y ago
Leaving aside the technical issues of "what happens when a mentally-ill prisoner breaks every new headset after 5 minutes" aside for a moment. The pandemic has provided us with a lite version of what Snow proposed. And despite having better conditions (bigger and comfier apartments, no need to live alone, allowed to leave the place once in a while) this was enough for plenty of people to have nervous breakdowns. I don't doubt that I would do fine in such a prison, but I also don't doubt that most people would come out completely broken. To quote the modern poet Randall Munroe [1], "I've never been that big of a hug person, but it turns out I'm not quite this small of a hug person either". [1] https://xkcd.com/2419/ https://xkcd.com/2419/

simmerup 5y ago

What happens when a rowdy prisoner breaks the VR headset and is suddenly trapped alone in a box for 10 years. What state do you think he’ll be in when he’s let out? Ridiculous idea

FeepingCreature 5y ago
Maybe you could give them a replacement edit: and I mean, they could still use voicechat in the meanwhile, you can build that in the wall so it's pretty hard to break
- simmerup 5y ago
  And when they break the replacement? Or they piss off the guards so the replacement somehow takes months to get to them? It’s cruel.
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  >Maybe you could give them a replacement but isn't this supposed to be happening in America?
- mcguire 5y ago
  What happens if VR goggles turn out not to be the most wonderful thing ever? Well, it's still cheaper and I'm sure eventually VR technology will get better...
nemo44x 5y ago
Lobotomy was used for this purpose for many years to make unruly prisoners docile. The practice is still legal (and doesn't use an ice pick any longer), however it is rarely used today. There are however an array of medications that could be administrated to force compliance and do not cause a permanent state like a lobotomy would. But yes, the entire idea is dehumanizing in my opinion.
- simmerup 5y ago
  Dehumanising is the Silicon Valley status quo.
  - nixpulvis 5y ago
    And it's spreading!
- FeepingCreature 5y ago
  Prison is dehumanizing. Any gain in dehumanization may well be made up for by the incredibly reduction in rape.

ModernMech 5y ago

The idea is obviously bad because it’s ostensibly designed to protect prisoners by reducing the opportunity for prisoner-on-prisoner violence. A noble goal, but what this fails to recognize is a good chunk of prison violence originates from guards, including sexual assault. I fear giving guards free reign to isolated prisoners would have the exact opposite effect of reducing violence in prison.

nemo44x 5y ago
That sounds like a pretty easy problem to solve with auditable surveillance that is redundantly deployed and has realtime ML algorithms that "watch" it.
- ModernMech 5y ago
  And this surveillance system would be controlled by…
  - nemo44x 5y ago
    Multiple independent auditors?
    - ModernMech 5y ago
      That could work but at the end of the day it’s the guards who have physical control of the surveillance system. We would have to rely on this other system (powered by ML — who designed this system? - and independent auditors) working for prisoners instead of for the guards when anything goes wrong (sorry the recording malfunctioned during the exact period you claim you were assaulted). Unfortunately prisoners are usually on the losing end of systems designed by their jailers, as they lack strong advocacy and a role in designing the system itself.
    - mcguire 5y ago
      I thought this was supposed to be cheaper?
- 5y ago

mcguire 5y ago

Technically, the response is more like "Well, we have reasons to believe that this idea is dangerous and it doesn't actually solve any problems. In fact, the only advantage it does have is to give some pseudo-intellectual who doesn't understand any of the issues the warm, fuzzy feeling that he's smarter than everyone else." I mean really, he calculated the price of the prisoner's toilet?

probably_wrong 5y ago

Leaving aside the technical issues of "what happens when a mentally-ill prisoner breaks every new headset after 5 minutes" aside for a moment. The pandemic has provided us with a lite version of what Snow proposed. And despite having better conditions (bigger and comfier apartments, no need to live alone, allowed to leave the place once in a while) this was enough for plenty of people to have nervous breakdowns. I don't doubt that I would do fine in such a prison, but I also don't doubt that most people would come out completely broken. To quote the modern poet Randall Munroe [1], "I've never been that big of a hug person, but it turns out I'm not quite this small of a hug person either". [1] https://xkcd.com/2419/ https://xkcd.com/2419/