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> Once a language gets beyond a certain complexity — say LaTeX, Common Lisp, C++, PL/1, modern Java Nevertheless Common Lisp, C++, let a lone Java (I know noth

> Once a language gets beyond a certain complexity — say LaTeX, Common Lisp, C++, PL/1, modern Java Nevertheless Common Lisp, C++, let a lone Java (I know nothing about PL/1) at least are reasonably easy to grok, read and write. At the same time LaTeX seems a language of extraterrestrial insectoids as soon as you go beyond composing formulae and substituting text in pre-made templates and and want really custom typesetting. I once felt like I would like to actually learn it, tried it and gave up completely quickly - it really feels unapproachable.

the_duke 5y ago
I disagree on this one. Before `class`, people built ad-hoc class-like constructs based on prototype inheritance. Often in slightly different ways, with different constructor choices and different implementation details. For larger code bases in team environments class is a really critical standardization, otherwise you can easily end up with a mess. It's also important for tooling, because IDEs can much better understand what's going on and present information better. Now, if Javascript really needs things like private class members and a lot of the other difficulties around classes is another question.
- szastamasta 5y ago
  I personally see very few use cases for classes in JS. Most of the stuff can be solved by using factories and objects without all "this" issues.
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  I appreciate your opinion and generally agree but feel like you probably meant this to be a response to some other comment.
  - the_duke 5y ago
    Whoops, indeed, the intended target was https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28549925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28549925.
pvaldes 5y ago
What I found in TeX is that when I was stuck with how to do that? in the 99% of the times somebody had faced and solved the same problem before, not matter how extravagant. Do you want that? sure. Do this. So there is a possible solution for it that does not need to start doing microsurgery with the extra-arcane parts of the language. There was several very good books about Latex also. Is not easy always but definitely is doable. Lisp is like being over a small table really drunk in the middle of the oceanic storm. The points of reference are moving all the time and the documentation system basically hates you.
- pvaldes 5y ago
  (Okay, maybe is time to look for trouble. Sorry clisp. Here we go again...) apt install slime sbcl Always stubborn like a horse
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  > What I found in TeX is that when I was stuck with how to do that? in the 99% of the times somebody had faced and solved the same problem before, not matter how extravagant. Do you want that? sure. This true and really nice, as long as long as you are Okay with copy-pasting everything mindlessly without serious customizations. It's like being a wizard who would invoke some specific spells by reciting specific phrases in an ancient language without having any idea of the actual language and the nature of the magic while knowing them would let him achieve much much more, easily and elegantly.
  - pvaldes 5y ago
    Or you can invest some money into buying books and invest lots of time learning a language that is a standard in scientific publication, as I did. Everything can be learnt. Is just a question of will, money and time.
    - qwerty456127 5y ago
      In fact I'm not interested in it being a standard in scientific publication nor in investing a huge amount of time. I just want a typesetting language which would be more practical and more powerful than HTML+CSS yet reasonably easy to learn and use in creative and practical ways. Unfortunately I don't know of any typesetting languages other than TeX and HTML+CSS.

the_duke 5y ago

I disagree on this one. Before `class`, people built ad-hoc class-like constructs based on prototype inheritance. Often in slightly different ways, with different constructor choices and different implementation details. For larger code bases in team environments class is a really critical standardization, otherwise you can easily end up with a mess. It's also important for tooling, because IDEs can much better understand what's going on and present information better. Now, if Javascript really needs things like private class members and a lot of the other difficulties around classes is another question.

szastamasta 5y ago
I personally see very few use cases for classes in JS. Most of the stuff can be solved by using factories and objects without all "this" issues.
qwerty456127 5y ago
I appreciate your opinion and generally agree but feel like you probably meant this to be a response to some other comment.
- the_duke 5y ago
  Whoops, indeed, the intended target was https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28549925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28549925.

pvaldes 5y ago

What I found in TeX is that when I was stuck with how to do that? in the 99% of the times somebody had faced and solved the same problem before, not matter how extravagant. Do you want that? sure. Do this. So there is a possible solution for it that does not need to start doing microsurgery with the extra-arcane parts of the language. There was several very good books about Latex also. Is not easy always but definitely is doable. Lisp is like being over a small table really drunk in the middle of the oceanic storm. The points of reference are moving all the time and the documentation system basically hates you.

pvaldes 5y ago
(Okay, maybe is time to look for trouble. Sorry clisp. Here we go again...) apt install slime sbcl Always stubborn like a horse
qwerty456127 5y ago
> What I found in TeX is that when I was stuck with how to do that? in the 99% of the times somebody had faced and solved the same problem before, not matter how extravagant. Do you want that? sure. This true and really nice, as long as long as you are Okay with copy-pasting everything mindlessly without serious customizations. It's like being a wizard who would invoke some specific spells by reciting specific phrases in an ancient language without having any idea of the actual language and the nature of the magic while knowing them would let him achieve much much more, easily and elegantly.
- pvaldes 5y ago
  Or you can invest some money into buying books and invest lots of time learning a language that is a standard in scientific publication, as I did. Everything can be learnt. Is just a question of will, money and time.
  - qwerty456127 5y ago
    In fact I'm not interested in it being a standard in scientific publication nor in investing a huge amount of time. I just want a typesetting language which would be more practical and more powerful than HTML+CSS yet reasonably easy to learn and use in creative and practical ways. Unfortunately I don't know of any typesetting languages other than TeX and HTML+CSS.