4 ms·

11,5 million people are members of the major trade unions, but roughly half of them are not workers anymore, they are retired

peoplefromibiza 5y ago
That's what the right wants people to believe. The far right has been very active to support this claim, web sites like primatonazionale keep pushing false information about it, in reality age wise only 46% of the members are 50 or older, age of retirement is at least 62 years in Italy, so statistically a vast majority of the members is still working. It is true that many retired people keep supporting the trade unions, but trade unions work for retired people too and their rights as former workers. My mom, for example, had free legal assistance by the unions to obtain a compensation for an occupational disease that made her partially disabled. If she had to fight alone she wouldn't have obtained it and it would have costed us a fortune. Please stop spreading disinformation.
mastazi 5y ago
There is also another problem with Italian trade unions. The workers who are unionised are generally privileged compared to the general population. Meanwhile many disadvantaged workers - who are employed with short-term contracts[1] or very often without contract[2], (which is wide spread even though that is technically illegal) are not unionised. At the same time you will see categories of privileged workers such as Alitalia pilots or hospital doctors where the vast majority of workers are unionised. So Italian unions are halfway between what unions are really supposed to be, and a nation-wide country club. At least, this was the situation 10 years ago when I left the country. From what I hear, it doesn't seem this has changed. [1] these are known in Italy as "precari" i.e. people who are in a precarious position. [2] illegal labour is very common especially in central and southern regions, it is known in Italy as "lavoro nero" - nero is the colour black in Italian but in this case it actually means "submerged".
- peoplefromibiza 5y ago
  > Meanwhile many disadvantaged workers - who are employed with short-term contracts[1] (or very often without contract[2], which is wide spread even though that is technically illegal) are not unionised. Not to defend Italian unions, that have their fault, but: Of course workers working illegally are not unionized, that doesn't mean they have no protection at all. Italy is well known for having a subsidy for everything, including unoccupied people, who earn money from the State and from their illegal job. Anyway, short-term workers are protected by unions, I know for sure at least CGIL has a department devolved to temporary workers or people working part time or on a short-term contract. In Italy even cab drivers have their own unions! (plural!)
  - mastazi 5y ago
    > Anyway, short-term workers are protected by unions, I know for sure at least CGIL has a department devolved to temporary workers But they are generally less likely to unionise i.e. the percentage of temporary workers who are union members is lower compared to long term contract workers. I’m not saying this is necessarily the union’s fault, and of course I agree with you that it would be nearly impossible for illegal workers to unionise, however the fact remains that unions don’t generally represent the most disadvantaged groups. I have to say though that the Amazon deal is a sign that things are changing. The unions that I remember would have strongly opposed the possibility of Amazon entering the Italian market, let alone making a deal with them.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Many peoplet that are unlikely to unionized aren't even aware of their work rights per law, the basic stuff they aren't actually obliged to do, but they do it anyway thanks to their lack of knowledge, and fear to lose their job.

peoplefromibiza 5y ago

That's what the right wants people to believe. The far right has been very active to support this claim, web sites like primatonazionale keep pushing false information about it, in reality age wise only 46% of the members are 50 or older, age of retirement is at least 62 years in Italy, so statistically a vast majority of the members is still working. It is true that many retired people keep supporting the trade unions, but trade unions work for retired people too and their rights as former workers. My mom, for example, had free legal assistance by the unions to obtain a compensation for an occupational disease that made her partially disabled. If she had to fight alone she wouldn't have obtained it and it would have costed us a fortune. Please stop spreading disinformation.

mastazi 5y ago

There is also another problem with Italian trade unions. The workers who are unionised are generally privileged compared to the general population. Meanwhile many disadvantaged workers - who are employed with short-term contracts[1] or very often without contract[2], (which is wide spread even though that is technically illegal) are not unionised. At the same time you will see categories of privileged workers such as Alitalia pilots or hospital doctors where the vast majority of workers are unionised. So Italian unions are halfway between what unions are really supposed to be, and a nation-wide country club. At least, this was the situation 10 years ago when I left the country. From what I hear, it doesn't seem this has changed. [1] these are known in Italy as "precari" i.e. people who are in a precarious position. [2] illegal labour is very common especially in central and southern regions, it is known in Italy as "lavoro nero" - nero is the colour black in Italian but in this case it actually means "submerged".

peoplefromibiza 5y ago
> Meanwhile many disadvantaged workers - who are employed with short-term contracts[1] (or very often without contract[2], which is wide spread even though that is technically illegal) are not unionised. Not to defend Italian unions, that have their fault, but: Of course workers working illegally are not unionized, that doesn't mean they have no protection at all. Italy is well known for having a subsidy for everything, including unoccupied people, who earn money from the State and from their illegal job. Anyway, short-term workers are protected by unions, I know for sure at least CGIL has a department devolved to temporary workers or people working part time or on a short-term contract. In Italy even cab drivers have their own unions! (plural!)
- mastazi 5y ago
  > Anyway, short-term workers are protected by unions, I know for sure at least CGIL has a department devolved to temporary workers But they are generally less likely to unionise i.e. the percentage of temporary workers who are union members is lower compared to long term contract workers. I’m not saying this is necessarily the union’s fault, and of course I agree with you that it would be nearly impossible for illegal workers to unionise, however the fact remains that unions don’t generally represent the most disadvantaged groups. I have to say though that the Amazon deal is a sign that things are changing. The unions that I remember would have strongly opposed the possibility of Amazon entering the Italian market, let alone making a deal with them.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Many peoplet that are unlikely to unionized aren't even aware of their work rights per law, the basic stuff they aren't actually obliged to do, but they do it anyway thanks to their lack of knowledge, and fear to lose their job.