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How about Brian Chesky (son of social workers), Marc Andreesen (son of seed factory worker), or just Jeff bezos with a pretty shitty family background: At the

by zpeti 5y ago

How about Brian Chesky (son of social workers), Marc Andreesen (son of seed factory worker), or just Jeff bezos with a pretty shitty family background: At the time of Bezos' birth, his mother was a 17-year-old high school student and his father was 19 years old.[18] After completing high school despite challenging conditions, Jacklyn attended night school while bringing Bezos along as a baby.[19] After his parents divorced, his mother married Cuban immigrant Miguel "Mike" Bezos in April 1968.[20] Shortly after the wedding, Mike adopted four-year-old Bezos, whose surname was then legally changed from Jorgensen to Bezos.[21] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Bezos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Bezos We can all pick examples to fit our narratives

fragmede 5y ago
How does Bezos' background disprove the notion that homeless people aren't homeless because they're lazy? That if only we made life just a little more horrible for them, that they would realize being homeless sucks, stop being lazy, and just go get one of those job things, and then pull themselves up by their bootstraps. (A feat which is literally impossible, mind you)
- robertlagrant 5y ago
  I think the examples are to counter the cherry-picking of entrepreneurs who are from middle class backgrounds.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    The salient point is that certain class of people are likelier take risks because failing will not leave their children hungry. Obviously, poor people can also take risks, but the ones that fail do not get to try again and you do not hear about them again. Bezos is a ridiculous example to use anyway, as he obviously made bank working in finance before he took risks on Amazon such that he was never risking being homeless. Just the simple fact that your parents own a home where you are welcome to live can be enough for you to be able to take risks. And Zuckerberg and Gates and others were not middle class, they were at least upper middle and I would bet their parents (dentists and prominent lawyers) were already above 90th percentile in wealth. I love when people tell me examples of extremely poor people taking risks and hitting it big, and at the same time lament how people irresponsibly have children and debt they could not handle. Celebrate them when the gamble pays off, but shit on them when it does not.
    - robertlagrant 5y ago
      > I love when people tell me examples of extremely poor people taking risks and hitting it big, and at the same time lament how people irresponsibly have children and debt they could not handle. Celebrate them when the gamble pays off, but shit on them when it does not. How often does this happen? Who says those two things simultaneously?
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Maybe not simultaneously, but I grew up in an immigrant family where everyone’s parents had farmland and houses in the original country. Almost all the families and cousins are pretty successful business/real estate owners/operators, who champion themselves, while ignoring the fact that they all had houses and farmland to go back to in their original country in case they failed. But many, especially the older generations, also like to complain about people not striking it out on their own as a causal factor for why they remain poor. It is a popular trope in culture too. It makes people feel good about themselves if they can forget about the shoulders they stood on, and for those who do not have shoulders to stand on, it gives them hope.
        robertlagrant 5y ago
        Sure but... > people tell me examples of extremely poor people taking risks and hitting it big, and at the same time lament how people irresponsibly have children and debt they could not handle Is having children a risk that could mean one hits it big? And it's definitely also possible (if not normal) for debt to come from lifestyle overspending rather than risking things to make it big. I just don't see the logical connection, although I can see there's an emotional one there.
  - cvlasdkv 5y ago
    Bezoes received at minimum six figures from his family (at a time where six figures was pretty significant). He is middle class. Also pretending like the barrier of entry into technology _hasn't_ gone up is ignoring the material conditions people face now.
    - robertlagrant 5y ago
      Has it gone up? Cheap hardware and comms, free tutorials everywhere and a thirst for more tech talent can't hurt. If you think it was easier when you had to study at or work for a wealthy university, and also everything had to be done painstaking by punched card instead of today's instant feedback on a free, beautiful tutorial website, then I'm not sure what to tell you.
TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
We can indeed. You left out this part: After Mike had received his degree from the University of New Mexico, the family moved to Houston, Texas, so that he could begin working as an engineer for Exxon.[22] Jeff Bezos attended River Oaks Elementary School in Houston from fourth to sixth grade.[23] Bezos' maternal grandfather was Lawrence Preston Gise, a regional director of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) in Albuquerque.[24] Gise retired early to his family's ranch near Cotulla, Texas, where Bezos would spend many summers in his youth.[25] [...] He accepted an estimated $300,000 from his parents and invested in Amazon.[47][51][52] He warned many early investors that there was a 70% chance that Amazon would fail or go bankrupt. The one thing many CEOs have in common is early access to resources and tinkering opportunities which aren't available to most of the population. Which is the exact opposite of your point.
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by zpeti 5y ago

fragmede 5y ago

How does Bezos' background disprove the notion that homeless people aren't homeless because they're lazy? That if only we made life just a little more horrible for them, that they would realize being homeless sucks, stop being lazy, and just go get one of those job things, and then pull themselves up by their bootstraps. (A feat which is literally impossible, mind you)

robertlagrant 5y ago
I think the examples are to counter the cherry-picking of entrepreneurs who are from middle class backgrounds.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  The salient point is that certain class of people are likelier take risks because failing will not leave their children hungry. Obviously, poor people can also take risks, but the ones that fail do not get to try again and you do not hear about them again. Bezos is a ridiculous example to use anyway, as he obviously made bank working in finance before he took risks on Amazon such that he was never risking being homeless. Just the simple fact that your parents own a home where you are welcome to live can be enough for you to be able to take risks. And Zuckerberg and Gates and others were not middle class, they were at least upper middle and I would bet their parents (dentists and prominent lawyers) were already above 90th percentile in wealth. I love when people tell me examples of extremely poor people taking risks and hitting it big, and at the same time lament how people irresponsibly have children and debt they could not handle. Celebrate them when the gamble pays off, but shit on them when it does not.
  - robertlagrant 5y ago
    > I love when people tell me examples of extremely poor people taking risks and hitting it big, and at the same time lament how people irresponsibly have children and debt they could not handle. Celebrate them when the gamble pays off, but shit on them when it does not. How often does this happen? Who says those two things simultaneously?
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Maybe not simultaneously, but I grew up in an immigrant family where everyone’s parents had farmland and houses in the original country. Almost all the families and cousins are pretty successful business/real estate owners/operators, who champion themselves, while ignoring the fact that they all had houses and farmland to go back to in their original country in case they failed. But many, especially the older generations, also like to complain about people not striking it out on their own as a causal factor for why they remain poor. It is a popular trope in culture too. It makes people feel good about themselves if they can forget about the shoulders they stood on, and for those who do not have shoulders to stand on, it gives them hope.
      - robertlagrant 5y ago
        Sure but... > people tell me examples of extremely poor people taking risks and hitting it big, and at the same time lament how people irresponsibly have children and debt they could not handle Is having children a risk that could mean one hits it big? And it's definitely also possible (if not normal) for debt to come from lifestyle overspending rather than risking things to make it big. I just don't see the logical connection, although I can see there's an emotional one there.
- cvlasdkv 5y ago
  Bezoes received at minimum six figures from his family (at a time where six figures was pretty significant). He is middle class. Also pretending like the barrier of entry into technology _hasn't_ gone up is ignoring the material conditions people face now.
  - robertlagrant 5y ago
    Has it gone up? Cheap hardware and comms, free tutorials everywhere and a thirst for more tech talent can't hurt. If you think it was easier when you had to study at or work for a wealthy university, and also everything had to be done painstaking by punched card instead of today's instant feedback on a free, beautiful tutorial website, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

TheOtherHobbes 5y ago

We can indeed. You left out this part: After Mike had received his degree from the University of New Mexico, the family moved to Houston, Texas, so that he could begin working as an engineer for Exxon.[22] Jeff Bezos attended River Oaks Elementary School in Houston from fourth to sixth grade.[23] Bezos' maternal grandfather was Lawrence Preston Gise, a regional director of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) in Albuquerque.[24] Gise retired early to his family's ranch near Cotulla, Texas, where Bezos would spend many summers in his youth.[25] [...] He accepted an estimated $300,000 from his parents and invested in Amazon.[47][51][52] He warned many early investors that there was a 70% chance that Amazon would fail or go bankrupt. The one thing many CEOs have in common is early access to resources and tinkering opportunities which aren't available to most of the population. Which is the exact opposite of your point.

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