3 ms·

And even the difference seems to be about the same for both groups, which I read as a sign that delta is just better adapted to the upper respiratory tract wher

by usrusr 5y ago

And even the difference seems to be about the same for both groups, which I read as a sign that delta is just better adapted to the upper respiratory tract where immunity from intramuscular vaccines generally doesn't happen. It seems to be a completely separate immune system (this part is not crude layman's speculation but crude layman's rewording of established knowledge I think) which is also consistent with the recorded observation that patients who struggled for their lives typically lost much of their infectivity long before the struggle even started to get serious. In a fully vaccinated environment it might not be so bad to get the "other immune system" to know the virus before the one prepared by intramuscular lowers alert status.

lamontcg 5y ago
There's no "other immune system" involved. With RNA viruses in particular there's a long phase where infected cells are pumping out viral debris rather than correctly packaged and infectious virions. With severely ill people the cells pumping out viral debris late in the disease cause the same immune response to those proteins just like "live" virus. They aren't infectious though. This is why a long time ago back in like April 2020 there were reports of "lingering infections" up to 90 days long in South Korea when measured by RT-PCR at high cycle thresholds. This is probably why Christiano Ronaldo was testing positive for COVID long after he was recovered and (in)famously called PCR testing "bullshit". With breakthrough infections it is also seen that while the Ct values are comparable between breakthrough infections and unvaccinated infections, the breakthrough infections have less culturable virus and decline faster -- the PCR machine is reading more viral debris. Also, this is why the whole issue of hospitalized patients being moved back into nursing homes in NYC early in the pandemic is non-issue since they weren't infectious (and the peak in nursing home deaths occurred before the peak in returning patients to nursing homes). Cuomo is still a sexually harassing asshole though. There's theories that some long COVID cases might be due to lingering viral debris being pumped out by cells, and might be why some vaccine recipients feel relief from symptoms. Although I think its looking more like long-COVID/PASC has more to with autoantibodies.

by usrusr 5y ago

lamontcg 5y ago

There's no "other immune system" involved. With RNA viruses in particular there's a long phase where infected cells are pumping out viral debris rather than correctly packaged and infectious virions. With severely ill people the cells pumping out viral debris late in the disease cause the same immune response to those proteins just like "live" virus. They aren't infectious though. This is why a long time ago back in like April 2020 there were reports of "lingering infections" up to 90 days long in South Korea when measured by RT-PCR at high cycle thresholds. This is probably why Christiano Ronaldo was testing positive for COVID long after he was recovered and (in)famously called PCR testing "bullshit". With breakthrough infections it is also seen that while the Ct values are comparable between breakthrough infections and unvaccinated infections, the breakthrough infections have less culturable virus and decline faster -- the PCR machine is reading more viral debris. Also, this is why the whole issue of hospitalized patients being moved back into nursing homes in NYC early in the pandemic is non-issue since they weren't infectious (and the peak in nursing home deaths occurred before the peak in returning patients to nursing homes). Cuomo is still a sexually harassing asshole though. There's theories that some long COVID cases might be due to lingering viral debris being pumped out by cells, and might be why some vaccine recipients feel relief from symptoms. Although I think its looking more like long-COVID/PASC has more to with autoantibodies.