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> - Manufacturing engineering. Who gets a degree in manufacturing engineering today? Who knows how to lay out a production line? Apple, Amazon, Google, Faceboo

> - Manufacturing engineering. Who gets a degree in manufacturing engineering today? Who knows how to lay out a production line? Apple, Amazon, Google, Facebook, all have engineering centres in China. When Zuckerberg was flying to suck up to Xi Jinping, he didn't fly there in hopes of getting Facebook.com available in China. What he got from Xi is a permission to setup an office to sell ads, and hire cheap Chinese engineers. Apple famously tried to conceal even the fact of the existence of their RnD office in China, claiming that they don't have "design centres" outside of USA. Up to some point, people working in Apple RnD centre in China had a contract clause prohibiting them from posting the fact of their employment there on their LinkedIns. Google... almost the same story as the two above, it almost felt as if they felt "beshamed" to admit that they were opening an RnD shop in Shenzhen. "A small auxiliary office" that takes a few floors in Shenzhen's biggest building. Amazon started their Echo, and Fire RnD in USA, and then sent it off to China after a few releases, and repeated flops of Fire.

echelon 5y ago
So when does the US collapse for not knowing how to do anything anymore?
- Animats 5y ago
  Around 2030-2035, when China gets annoyed at the US over something and just stops shipping tools and componenets. Consumer goods shipments continue, but nothing that would allow the US to make anything.
  - echelon 5y ago
    10-15 years to re-industrialize or shift to other countries. Not going to happen. Why doesn't the US try to onshore critical manufacturing? This is braindead stupid behavior. Existentially risky.
    - runawaybottle 5y ago
      Labor costs are too high. Look, once you spend decades paying pennies on the dollar for labor, it’s very hard to go back. It’s the same when people discovered free music via p2p and YouTube. How do you dial that back? Nothing short of global war will fix this. Enter war with China where all trade is halted, and I promise you we’ll figure out how to on-shore manufacturing in a jiffy. A terrible price, but the only solution.
      - pm90 5y ago
        > Nothing short of global war will fix this. Enter war with China where all trade is halted, and I promise you we’ll figure out how to on-shore manufacturing in a jiffy. A terrible price, but the only solution. Yes, let’s start a global military conflict between nuclear powers in the hope that an economic activity that’s no longer feasible maybe becomes feasible.
    - crocodiletears 5y ago
      In part because we've spent the last two generations scrubbing ourselves of the intellectual capacity to have a coherent dialogue about industrial policy. Also in part because much of our leadership isn't composed of Americans working for American national interests, it's composed of humanists who perceive themselves to be global citizens and believe in a worldwide frictionless marketplace operating under a universal liberalism that incidentally control American resources.
      - pm90 5y ago
        Leaders who act against the interests of their constituents get voted out. I can’t imagine a majority of US politicians holding the thought that American jobs must be sacrificed for the good of the world. The less convoluted reason is that Corporations make a ton more profit by manufacturing overseas and have directed their lobbying dollars into either making politicians look the other way or prohibit them from taking meaningful efforts to save domestic manufacturing.
        5y ago

echelon 5y ago

So when does the US collapse for not knowing how to do anything anymore?

Animats 5y ago
Around 2030-2035, when China gets annoyed at the US over something and just stops shipping tools and componenets. Consumer goods shipments continue, but nothing that would allow the US to make anything.
- echelon 5y ago
  10-15 years to re-industrialize or shift to other countries. Not going to happen. Why doesn't the US try to onshore critical manufacturing? This is braindead stupid behavior. Existentially risky.
  - runawaybottle 5y ago
    Labor costs are too high. Look, once you spend decades paying pennies on the dollar for labor, it’s very hard to go back. It’s the same when people discovered free music via p2p and YouTube. How do you dial that back? Nothing short of global war will fix this. Enter war with China where all trade is halted, and I promise you we’ll figure out how to on-shore manufacturing in a jiffy. A terrible price, but the only solution.
    - pm90 5y ago
      > Nothing short of global war will fix this. Enter war with China where all trade is halted, and I promise you we’ll figure out how to on-shore manufacturing in a jiffy. A terrible price, but the only solution. Yes, let’s start a global military conflict between nuclear powers in the hope that an economic activity that’s no longer feasible maybe becomes feasible.
  - crocodiletears 5y ago
    In part because we've spent the last two generations scrubbing ourselves of the intellectual capacity to have a coherent dialogue about industrial policy. Also in part because much of our leadership isn't composed of Americans working for American national interests, it's composed of humanists who perceive themselves to be global citizens and believe in a worldwide frictionless marketplace operating under a universal liberalism that incidentally control American resources.
    - pm90 5y ago
      Leaders who act against the interests of their constituents get voted out. I can’t imagine a majority of US politicians holding the thought that American jobs must be sacrificed for the good of the world. The less convoluted reason is that Corporations make a ton more profit by manufacturing overseas and have directed their lobbying dollars into either making politicians look the other way or prohibit them from taking meaningful efforts to save domestic manufacturing.
      - 5y ago