7 ms·

Hmm I just got my first shot 2 weeks ago. What would the government and medical experts suggest then? Should we take Moderna instead? I don't see them studying

Hmm I just got my first shot 2 weeks ago. What would the government and medical experts suggest then? Should we take Moderna instead? I don't see them studying any other vaccine, why? After spending almost 2 years in lockdown we're just confused what to do if even vaccine status is like this

walterbell 5y ago
Increasing the time period between 1st and 2nd shots can improve effectiveness. This has been done in UK and Canada. There have been no clinical trials of mixing vaccines, but that hasn't stopped some countries from trying. If you've previously recovered from Covid, you already have long-lasting immunity.
- dboreham 5y ago
  Although I've heard this frequently here, it's not consistent with the many stories from friends detailing reinfection cases. Although friends can be mistaken or fibbing, the sheer volume of these stories along with the specific details of positive tests and so on make me wonder who's correct.
  - walterbell 5y ago
    Some references on natural immunity: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1427606022831624198.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1427606022831624198.html
  - junon 5y ago
    Vaccines and antibodies are not a magical invisible condom that prevent you from getting re-infected again. They prevent you from 1) having severe side effects, and 2) spreading it to others as much as if you had not encountered either. No self-respecting immunologist would claim the COVID vaccines prevented re-infection. That's never been the claim outside of those who are ill-informed.
    - mdp2021 5y ago
      It really seems to me the poster is writing about post natural infection reinfection: the parent poster wrote, «If you've previously recovered from Covid».
      - junon 5y ago
        Yes, my comment also applies to antibodies (e.g. the ones you develop after infection and recovery).
        mdp2021 5y ago
        Ok. If you formulate it those ways, you make it seem as if the vaccine does not make you develop antibodies (as if 'antibodies' implied 'not vaccine') :)
        junon 5y ago
        I was referring to the general umbrella of "anything but unvaccinated, non-post-recovery".
      - dboreham 5y ago
        Yes, I hear these two things: 1. If you've previously recovered from Covid you have long term immunity. and 2. Many many stories 1st and 2nd hand detailing reinfection (with symptoms) -- people who have definitively been infected at least twice, symptomatically. I don't think both 1 and 2 can be true, unless "long term immunity" means something different than my layperson interpretation.
        mdp2021 5y ago
        It's an interesting matter. Numbers should be seen. I have not followed the data, but a quick search reveals a few articles are available, for example: Reinfection Rates among Patients who Previously Tested Positive for COVID-19: a Retrospective Cohort Study [Mar 2021] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33718968/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33718968/ > Of 150,325 patients, 8,845 (5.9%) tested positive and 141,480 (94.1%) tested negative prior to August 30. 1,278 (14.4%) of the positive patients were retested after 90 days, and 62 had possible reinfection. Of those, 31 (50%) were symptomatic. Of those with initial negative testing, 5,449 (3.9%) were subsequently positive and 3,191 of those (58.5%) were symptomatic. Protection offered from prior infection was 81.8% (95% confidence interval 76.6 to 85.8), and against symptomatic infection was 84.5% (95% confidence interval 77.9 to 89.1). This protection increased over time The literature should be checked to see the different estimates of different researches. -- Edit: those results seem consistent with my second in queue article, Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm since > being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with being fully vaccinated Those studies show a good amount of post infection protection, though lower than some relevant vaccines. Also duration of the protection should be factored in, and the consideration is ongoing: only a few hours ago I read material (an Axios summary) about Pfizer vs Moderna, https://www.axios.com/pfizer-moderna-coronavirus-vaccines-effectiveness-data-4a681617-d887-4b21-93a3-d6c2d9d51b31.html https://www.axios.com/pfizer-moderna-coronavirus-vaccines-ef...
- rpmisms 5y ago
  > If you've previously recovered from Covid, you already have long-lasting immunity. Careful, suggesting that can get you crucified in the US.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    So true... since the vaccines are so effective, shouldn't they be giving you the live virus after getting vaccinated to help boost immunity? Or are they afraid the vaccines aren't even that effective?
    - adrianN 5y ago
      Given that some vaccinated people still die, a booster shot now and then seems like a much safer strategy.
      - jrockway 5y ago
        That makes sense. Like, people wear bulletproof vests without having their coworkers shoot them a couple times to make sure the vest works. The best way to avoid gunshot wounds is to not get shot.
        Leparamour 5y ago
        >The best way to avoid gunshot wounds is to not get shot. Bad analogy. What happens is that we're shooting people with .22LR (spike protein inducing mRNA) hoping it will help building immunity to bigger calibers (Covid19, not even talking about the variants).
        adrianN 5y ago
        That is a terrible analogy.
        Leparamour 5y ago
0xdeadb00f 5y ago
I think it's I'll advised to mix and match vaccines. If you've gotten the first Pfizer, get the second one and nothing else. It's probably safer to wait it out rather than risk something by mixing vaccines (something I think there is little study on ATM)
- creatonez 5y ago
  There is enough preliminary evidence to say mixing vaccine types is likely fine. Most of the mRNA vaccines are very similar formulations. I'm expecting it will eventually become recommended whenever it's the most convenient option.
  - 0xdeadb00f 5y ago
    I've looked into this more and you are correct. In fact, I've heard that a newer recommendation is to do the full course of one vaccine, then do another shot of a different one as a "booster".
throwaway2462 5y ago
Ask your doctor instead of HN.
- jonathanstrange 5y ago
  That's the most reasonable advice I've seen in this thread so far.
  - bsaul 5y ago
    I wouldn’t be surprised if regular doctors are less informed on latest studies than some information-hoarding member of this forum. Chances are your doctor will only repeat the general advices given by state medical authorities, which are themselves probably heavily influenced by the sanitary policy of the day (which can themselves be heavily polluted by purely political considerations, depending on where you live)
    - jonathanstrange 5y ago
      The difference is that regular doctors understand in relatively detailed ways how the human body works, something most commenters on social networks have no clue about. Moreover, they meet patients who cherry-pick studies and medical information with extreme bias daily in their practice (thanks to "Dr. Google"), which together with knowledge of statistics and the ability to actually understand the studies gives them an exceptionally reasonable perspective on new studies in shifting medical domains and how to deal with them. I very much hope that my doctor repeats the advice of state medical authorities. In my country, the Covid pandemic has been handled excellently, despite having a comparatively underfunded and not too well-outfitted health system.
      - bsaul 5y ago
        i’ve had the personal experience of knowing obviously more about a disease than the specialist i was seing (over minor details, but still). It was surprising to realize how much a bit of googling on a very specific subject can get you, provided you have some general scientific background.. Out of curiosity: what country are you living in ?

walterbell 5y ago

Increasing the time period between 1st and 2nd shots can improve effectiveness. This has been done in UK and Canada. There have been no clinical trials of mixing vaccines, but that hasn't stopped some countries from trying. If you've previously recovered from Covid, you already have long-lasting immunity.

dboreham 5y ago
Although I've heard this frequently here, it's not consistent with the many stories from friends detailing reinfection cases. Although friends can be mistaken or fibbing, the sheer volume of these stories along with the specific details of positive tests and so on make me wonder who's correct.
- walterbell 5y ago
  Some references on natural immunity: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1427606022831624198.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1427606022831624198.html
- junon 5y ago
  Vaccines and antibodies are not a magical invisible condom that prevent you from getting re-infected again. They prevent you from 1) having severe side effects, and 2) spreading it to others as much as if you had not encountered either. No self-respecting immunologist would claim the COVID vaccines prevented re-infection. That's never been the claim outside of those who are ill-informed.
  - mdp2021 5y ago
    It really seems to me the poster is writing about post natural infection reinfection: the parent poster wrote, «If you've previously recovered from Covid».
    - junon 5y ago
      Yes, my comment also applies to antibodies (e.g. the ones you develop after infection and recovery).
      - mdp2021 5y ago
        Ok. If you formulate it those ways, you make it seem as if the vaccine does not make you develop antibodies (as if 'antibodies' implied 'not vaccine') :)
        junon 5y ago
        I was referring to the general umbrella of "anything but unvaccinated, non-post-recovery".
    - dboreham 5y ago
      Yes, I hear these two things: 1. If you've previously recovered from Covid you have long term immunity. and 2. Many many stories 1st and 2nd hand detailing reinfection (with symptoms) -- people who have definitively been infected at least twice, symptomatically. I don't think both 1 and 2 can be true, unless "long term immunity" means something different than my layperson interpretation.
      - mdp2021 5y ago
        It's an interesting matter. Numbers should be seen. I have not followed the data, but a quick search reveals a few articles are available, for example: Reinfection Rates among Patients who Previously Tested Positive for COVID-19: a Retrospective Cohort Study [Mar 2021] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33718968/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33718968/ > Of 150,325 patients, 8,845 (5.9%) tested positive and 141,480 (94.1%) tested negative prior to August 30. 1,278 (14.4%) of the positive patients were retested after 90 days, and 62 had possible reinfection. Of those, 31 (50%) were symptomatic. Of those with initial negative testing, 5,449 (3.9%) were subsequently positive and 3,191 of those (58.5%) were symptomatic. Protection offered from prior infection was 81.8% (95% confidence interval 76.6 to 85.8), and against symptomatic infection was 84.5% (95% confidence interval 77.9 to 89.1). This protection increased over time The literature should be checked to see the different estimates of different researches. -- Edit: those results seem consistent with my second in queue article, Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm since > being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with being fully vaccinated Those studies show a good amount of post infection protection, though lower than some relevant vaccines. Also duration of the protection should be factored in, and the consideration is ongoing: only a few hours ago I read material (an Axios summary) about Pfizer vs Moderna, https://www.axios.com/pfizer-moderna-coronavirus-vaccines-effectiveness-data-4a681617-d887-4b21-93a3-d6c2d9d51b31.html https://www.axios.com/pfizer-moderna-coronavirus-vaccines-ef...
rpmisms 5y ago
> If you've previously recovered from Covid, you already have long-lasting immunity. Careful, suggesting that can get you crucified in the US.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  So true... since the vaccines are so effective, shouldn't they be giving you the live virus after getting vaccinated to help boost immunity? Or are they afraid the vaccines aren't even that effective?
  - adrianN 5y ago
    Given that some vaccinated people still die, a booster shot now and then seems like a much safer strategy.
    - jrockway 5y ago
      That makes sense. Like, people wear bulletproof vests without having their coworkers shoot them a couple times to make sure the vest works. The best way to avoid gunshot wounds is to not get shot.
      - Leparamour 5y ago
        >The best way to avoid gunshot wounds is to not get shot. Bad analogy. What happens is that we're shooting people with .22LR (spike protein inducing mRNA) hoping it will help building immunity to bigger calibers (Covid19, not even talking about the variants).
        adrianN 5y ago
        That is a terrible analogy.
        Leparamour 5y ago

0xdeadb00f 5y ago

I think it's I'll advised to mix and match vaccines. If you've gotten the first Pfizer, get the second one and nothing else. It's probably safer to wait it out rather than risk something by mixing vaccines (something I think there is little study on ATM)

creatonez 5y ago
There is enough preliminary evidence to say mixing vaccine types is likely fine. Most of the mRNA vaccines are very similar formulations. I'm expecting it will eventually become recommended whenever it's the most convenient option.
- 0xdeadb00f 5y ago
  I've looked into this more and you are correct. In fact, I've heard that a newer recommendation is to do the full course of one vaccine, then do another shot of a different one as a "booster".

throwaway2462 5y ago

Ask your doctor instead of HN.

jonathanstrange 5y ago
That's the most reasonable advice I've seen in this thread so far.
- bsaul 5y ago
  I wouldn’t be surprised if regular doctors are less informed on latest studies than some information-hoarding member of this forum. Chances are your doctor will only repeat the general advices given by state medical authorities, which are themselves probably heavily influenced by the sanitary policy of the day (which can themselves be heavily polluted by purely political considerations, depending on where you live)
  - jonathanstrange 5y ago
    The difference is that regular doctors understand in relatively detailed ways how the human body works, something most commenters on social networks have no clue about. Moreover, they meet patients who cherry-pick studies and medical information with extreme bias daily in their practice (thanks to "Dr. Google"), which together with knowledge of statistics and the ability to actually understand the studies gives them an exceptionally reasonable perspective on new studies in shifting medical domains and how to deal with them. I very much hope that my doctor repeats the advice of state medical authorities. In my country, the Covid pandemic has been handled excellently, despite having a comparatively underfunded and not too well-outfitted health system.
    - bsaul 5y ago
      i’ve had the personal experience of knowing obviously more about a disease than the specialist i was seing (over minor details, but still). It was surprising to realize how much a bit of googling on a very specific subject can get you, provided you have some general scientific background.. Out of curiosity: what country are you living in ?