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Funny, I'm finally throwing in the towel and going back to HASS after trying to go all node-red. I loathe the GUI experience in both, and node-red updates were

Funny, I'm finally throwing in the towel and going back to HASS after trying to go all node-red. I loathe the GUI experience in both, and node-red updates weren't as painless as I read online (better than HASS, but now I'm monitoring a litany of NPM packages). HASS seems like the least bad OSS solution for home automation--it has a lot of inertia but I'm not a fan of the group (company?) making big decisions for the project. I really wish they hadn't dictated the end of YAML/declarative configurations.

tlrobinson 5y ago
Doesn’t node-red complement HASS? I use Home Assistant for simple things and bridge to node-red for more complex automations.
- candiddevmike 5y ago
  It can, a lot of users pushed people to use node-red in place of HASS automations prior to the automation update earlier this year and app daemon. "In theory", node-red can do everything HASS can (possibly missing some integrations, see inertia comment above), but in reality it's quite a bit more complex, especially when you don't have HASS handling all the stateful things. I think the consensus now is to just use HASS, node-red isn't necessary?
  - tlrobinson 5y ago
    Cool, I haven’t kept up to date, I’ll have to check out the latest version.
    - candiddevmike 5y ago
      Best of luck with your upgrades =D
barbazoo 5y ago
> I really wish they hadn't dictated the end of YAML/declarative configurations. Can you elaborate a bit here? I might be on an older version but afaict it's still configured via yml configs.
- teamspirit 5y ago
  The devs decided to essentially eliminate yaml config files in favor of GUI configs. The reasoning being less braking changes (no need to individually update your yaml files when an update requires it) and easier adoption for new, less technical users. I don't know about op, but I very much prefer config files. Using tools like sed or grep to make changes is much faster than mouse clicks - but I understand the devs point of view.
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    I'm not a big fan of that either. I like my workflow of using git to version control integrations, dashboards, scripts, etc. Not sure how I would do that with dynamic configs.
    - michaeltlewis 5y ago
      Blog clarifying this, and addressing such concerns, here: https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2020/04/14/the-future-of-yaml/ https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2020/04/14/the-future-of-...
      - barbazoo 5y ago
        > the .storage folder contains all Home Assistant managed configuration files in JSON format, which in those cases, can be stored and versioned in a git repository Sounds like I can still do what I need. The only difference being, those configuration files can also be changed via UI which is fine. Thanks for the link.
tout 5y ago
I've found openHAB to be quite stable. Setup is pretty heavyweight but I've just had it chugging along happily managing BLE, Z-Wave, a few cameras, etc.
- madaxe_again 5y ago
  Ditto. Even across upgrades it’s had very, very few issues - and I’m using it for both a bevy of normal home automation stuff, and to manage isolated power and water microgrids for several homesteads - routing power, switching dump loads on and off, balancing battery banks, monitoring tank levels, running pumps, alerting on low flow states (time to change a filter), and all the rest. It’s mission critical for us, and hasn’t let us down in the two years it’s been running the show.
- StapleHorse 5y ago
  I like Openhab. I hope the userbase and the community keeps growing.
snapetom 5y ago
I gave up on all open source home automation solutions. Home Assistant is the "least bad" but that's not saying much at all. I pony upped for a Hubitat earlier this year, and although the GUI is fugly, it just works and I don't have to keep babysitting it constantly like I did with Home Assistant.
- justapassenger 5y ago
  Same boat here. I really really really wanted to love home assistant. But it’s been constant battle to keep it running over 3 years of me using it. I’m fighting to keep systems up for money at work, and at home I just want something that works. If only one day Hubitat makes usable dashboards (I know there are third party ones, but it means either some cloud solution that will die one day, or some hacky custom stuff I’ll need to fight with) then it’ll be perfect home automation solution for techies IMO.
- Gatsky 5y ago
  Not my experience at all, HA has been unfailingly solid.
- ornornor 5y ago
  I’m running HASS with the HASSOS VM image and it’s pretty solid. I’ve never tried running a custom install of HASS on a Linux system I installed separately but I can’t imagine that being much fun. HASSOS is pretty much an appliance at that point. I can’t remember the last time I had to ssh into it. Upgrades, backups, etc are all done via the web UI or the iOS app with a couple of clicks.
  - varjag 5y ago
    I (tried) using it since 2017, and there's been a ton of breaking changes since. Basically a major redesign of everything. The overall trend is a move from programmability to (in my experience fragile) UI centric. Even worse is when you have some more obscure components that just quietly get dropped.
    - 5y ago
ornornor 5y ago
I didn’t love nodered. It just didn’t click with my programmer mind. Instead, I found appdaemon along with HASS. This allows me to write all my automations as python code rather than dragging and dropping boxes around. And it’s easier for me to use vs HASS yaml files.
bouke 5y ago
Your post resonates with me, but I dread the yaml configuration. I find it very hard to discover available settings and every module seems to have a slightly different file layout. I’m not a fan of needing the GUI for configuration either. The constant work to keep things updated is a hassle, requiring python upgrades unavailable in the raspbian distro meaning slow compiles from source (which somehow fails on 3.9 and requires dropping to 3.8). I would be very happy with something that just works, without constantly needing fiddling and handholding.
a254613e 5y ago
Agreed. Been using home assistant for years, and right now it's probably in the weirdest state as far as configuration/yaml/gui goes. And often times you need to go and edit "read-only" huge json file that contains every single integration instead of individual integration yaml files like it was before. Nabu Casa (for profit company behind home assistant) made some of the decisions that were questionable at best.
aequitas 5y ago
> I really wish they hadn't dictated the end of YAML/declarative configurations. Agree here. I wouldn't mind replacing YAML itself with some kind of other configuration language or stable configuration API as long as I'm able to use a IaC/declarative approach to create a immutable/disposable HA instance. But they seem to be going more and more toward GUI only configurations. Meaning if the application state is broken, you can only rely on (outdated) backups or doing everything manually through the GUI again. This, together with the core team's hostile attitude towards alternative installation methods and other OSS projects like NixOS[0] has really turned me sour against what used to be a great and fun open source project to contribute to. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27505277 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27505277

tlrobinson 5y ago

Doesn’t node-red complement HASS? I use Home Assistant for simple things and bridge to node-red for more complex automations.

candiddevmike 5y ago
It can, a lot of users pushed people to use node-red in place of HASS automations prior to the automation update earlier this year and app daemon. "In theory", node-red can do everything HASS can (possibly missing some integrations, see inertia comment above), but in reality it's quite a bit more complex, especially when you don't have HASS handling all the stateful things. I think the consensus now is to just use HASS, node-red isn't necessary?
- tlrobinson 5y ago
  Cool, I haven’t kept up to date, I’ll have to check out the latest version.
  - candiddevmike 5y ago
    Best of luck with your upgrades =D

barbazoo 5y ago

> I really wish they hadn't dictated the end of YAML/declarative configurations. Can you elaborate a bit here? I might be on an older version but afaict it's still configured via yml configs.

teamspirit 5y ago
The devs decided to essentially eliminate yaml config files in favor of GUI configs. The reasoning being less braking changes (no need to individually update your yaml files when an update requires it) and easier adoption for new, less technical users. I don't know about op, but I very much prefer config files. Using tools like sed or grep to make changes is much faster than mouse clicks - but I understand the devs point of view.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  I'm not a big fan of that either. I like my workflow of using git to version control integrations, dashboards, scripts, etc. Not sure how I would do that with dynamic configs.
  - michaeltlewis 5y ago
    Blog clarifying this, and addressing such concerns, here: https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2020/04/14/the-future-of-yaml/ https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2020/04/14/the-future-of-...
    - barbazoo 5y ago
      > the .storage folder contains all Home Assistant managed configuration files in JSON format, which in those cases, can be stored and versioned in a git repository Sounds like I can still do what I need. The only difference being, those configuration files can also be changed via UI which is fine. Thanks for the link.

tout 5y ago

I've found openHAB to be quite stable. Setup is pretty heavyweight but I've just had it chugging along happily managing BLE, Z-Wave, a few cameras, etc.

madaxe_again 5y ago
Ditto. Even across upgrades it’s had very, very few issues - and I’m using it for both a bevy of normal home automation stuff, and to manage isolated power and water microgrids for several homesteads - routing power, switching dump loads on and off, balancing battery banks, monitoring tank levels, running pumps, alerting on low flow states (time to change a filter), and all the rest. It’s mission critical for us, and hasn’t let us down in the two years it’s been running the show.
StapleHorse 5y ago
I like Openhab. I hope the userbase and the community keeps growing.

snapetom 5y ago

I gave up on all open source home automation solutions. Home Assistant is the "least bad" but that's not saying much at all. I pony upped for a Hubitat earlier this year, and although the GUI is fugly, it just works and I don't have to keep babysitting it constantly like I did with Home Assistant.

justapassenger 5y ago
Same boat here. I really really really wanted to love home assistant. But it’s been constant battle to keep it running over 3 years of me using it. I’m fighting to keep systems up for money at work, and at home I just want something that works. If only one day Hubitat makes usable dashboards (I know there are third party ones, but it means either some cloud solution that will die one day, or some hacky custom stuff I’ll need to fight with) then it’ll be perfect home automation solution for techies IMO.
Gatsky 5y ago
Not my experience at all, HA has been unfailingly solid.
ornornor 5y ago
I’m running HASS with the HASSOS VM image and it’s pretty solid. I’ve never tried running a custom install of HASS on a Linux system I installed separately but I can’t imagine that being much fun. HASSOS is pretty much an appliance at that point. I can’t remember the last time I had to ssh into it. Upgrades, backups, etc are all done via the web UI or the iOS app with a couple of clicks.
- varjag 5y ago
  I (tried) using it since 2017, and there's been a ton of breaking changes since. Basically a major redesign of everything. The overall trend is a move from programmability to (in my experience fragile) UI centric. Even worse is when you have some more obscure components that just quietly get dropped.
  - 5y ago

ornornor 5y ago

I didn’t love nodered. It just didn’t click with my programmer mind. Instead, I found appdaemon along with HASS. This allows me to write all my automations as python code rather than dragging and dropping boxes around. And it’s easier for me to use vs HASS yaml files.

bouke 5y ago

Your post resonates with me, but I dread the yaml configuration. I find it very hard to discover available settings and every module seems to have a slightly different file layout. I’m not a fan of needing the GUI for configuration either. The constant work to keep things updated is a hassle, requiring python upgrades unavailable in the raspbian distro meaning slow compiles from source (which somehow fails on 3.9 and requires dropping to 3.8). I would be very happy with something that just works, without constantly needing fiddling and handholding.

a254613e 5y ago

Agreed. Been using home assistant for years, and right now it's probably in the weirdest state as far as configuration/yaml/gui goes. And often times you need to go and edit "read-only" huge json file that contains every single integration instead of individual integration yaml files like it was before. Nabu Casa (for profit company behind home assistant) made some of the decisions that were questionable at best.

aequitas 5y ago

> I really wish they hadn't dictated the end of YAML/declarative configurations. Agree here. I wouldn't mind replacing YAML itself with some kind of other configuration language or stable configuration API as long as I'm able to use a IaC/declarative approach to create a immutable/disposable HA instance. But they seem to be going more and more toward GUI only configurations. Meaning if the application state is broken, you can only rely on (outdated) backups or doing everything manually through the GUI again. This, together with the core team's hostile attitude towards alternative installation methods and other OSS projects like NixOS[0] has really turned me sour against what used to be a great and fun open source project to contribute to. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27505277 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27505277