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My perception of American designed and engineered vehicles is that they’re really awful, not just from a reliability standpoint but also from a user interface s

My perception of American designed and engineered vehicles is that they’re really awful, not just from a reliability standpoint but also from a user interface standpoint. GM, Ford, and Chrysler haven’t been building good vehicles in my lifetime - once I switched to Hondas I’ve yet to have any serious engine trouble even in some very old vehicles, whereas every American car I’ve owned has been a money sink. Of course OPMMV, but I’d rather get a Hyundai or Kia nowadays than anything Detroit puts out. Touchscreens everywhere, actually horrible tech branded as being the second coming, vent positions that make no sense. I’m excited for all the EV models to choose from in the upcoming years but news stories like this make me think it’s gonna be the same old story - an absolute lack of inspiration, mechanical and engineering rigor, and a lot like the USA the staunch belief that in the end it somehow must still be the best despite all evidence to the contrary.

alex504 5y ago
> GM has said the fires are a rare event and are the result of two uncommon defects that stem from a manufacturing problem in LG’s plants in Michigan and South Korea.
- taurath 5y ago
  Recommending people park 50 feet away from other vehicles to me means that’s not rare enough IMO.
TulliusCicero 5y ago
But it's not the GM-made part of the car that's failing here, it's the LG-made batteries.
- taurath 5y ago
  And totally understand the sentiment, but Foxxcon isn’t blamed if iPhones start to fail left and right, Apple is. The people branding the car are responsible for their supply chain.
  - jackcosgrove 5y ago
    The Hyundai Kona Electric was discontinued in Korea because it uses the same batteries from LG, yet has continued to sell the Kona Electric elsewhere. Do you also blame Hyundai?
    - taurath 5y ago
      Yes I do, and that is good information :)
aidenn0 5y ago
The cells for the bolt were made in Korea though, right?
- taurath 5y ago
  iPhones are made in China; the brand owner doesn’t get to pass the buck to their contractors that they chose.
- robotbikes 5y ago
  The older 2017-2019 models were manufactured in Korea but they found the same defect in batteries built by LG in Michigan that they used on the 2021-2021 models. Which is why they are trying to figure out how to test the batteries to determine how common the defect is. It's actually two defects (broken anode tab and folded compartment) that when combined in the same model produce the fire risk.
mabbo 5y ago
> My perception of American designed and engineered vehicles is that they’re really awful, not just from a reliability standpoint but also from a user interface standpoint. For about 18 months in 2017 and 2018, I had a job that had me in a new city every other week. Lot of rental cars. And I started to have very strong preference. I would go out of my way to get a Chevy. Great Android auto integration. Good controls generally. Decent cars. It kills me to hear that Bolt is have these problems. I was thinking of buying one as my next car.
- taurath 5y ago
  I’ll check them out next time I’m looking. Last I drove one it was touchscreen for everything I wanted a dial for, and the IOS integration didn’t work except wired, and then it was also very slow. And of course my experience isn’t universal; it’s really hard to make an attempt to go back though after I’ve had many personal experiences of just faulty electronics and engines to trust a brand again.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    The cord is an iOS restriction on all cars in my experience. It does seem kind of silly to me.
- mercutio2 5y ago
  I own a Bolt. I loathe GM's software. With a flaming passion. Like, I will never buy another GM vehicle. The infotainment system crashes about once a week. It will come back in 10 minutes or so, but nothing I've done has ever managed to make it decide to reboot faster than that. The radio turns on. All the time. Over and over again. I literally never want the radio on. I only want CarPlay to ever play audio. GM seems to think any time anything changes in the car's state "oh look, now seems like a good opportunity to turn on the radio!". When the radio turns on, its volume is 10-20 notches louder than it was when playing CarPlay audio, so not only does it do a thing I don't want dozens of times a week, it does it much too loud. It would be truly sweet if I could sell it back, but I doubt the buyback option is actually a particularly good deal financially. The "it's an EV and it drives like a car with great range" part is really nice, though.
systemvoltage 5y ago
I think this would be true in 90's. It was really bad. Now a days, Ford and the rest make excellent vehicles on all fronts.
- taurath 5y ago
  I always give them a look - my biggest tell is usually which 10+ year old models do I actually see on the road. That’s a long lead time for sure, but IMO they have to prove it. I looked at the JD power reliability rankings for 2021 and was shocked that Honda is near the bottom now - but GM, Ford, Chrysler etc are all middle or bottom of the pack themselves
  - gautamcgoel 5y ago
    Do JD Power rankings actually mean anything? Somehow I thought their business model is, give us $ and we will give your car high ratings. Happy to be wrong though.
turtlebits 5y ago
Not sure where you're coming from. IMO, the Bolt UI is as good as it gets. Physical HVAC, steering wheel and volume controls, Apple Carplay and Android Auto on a decent sized touchscreen. I just got a new Toyota and the UI is absolutely horrible, the steering wheel button ergonomics are bad.
shadilay 5y ago
The Chevy Bolt was actually designed and engineered in Korea. >GM Korea began developing the Bolt in 2012 with a team of 180 people with the project code G2KCZ >The car's user interface was developed in Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Bolt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Bolt

alex504 5y ago

> GM has said the fires are a rare event and are the result of two uncommon defects that stem from a manufacturing problem in LG’s plants in Michigan and South Korea.

taurath 5y ago
Recommending people park 50 feet away from other vehicles to me means that’s not rare enough IMO.

TulliusCicero 5y ago

But it's not the GM-made part of the car that's failing here, it's the LG-made batteries.

taurath 5y ago
And totally understand the sentiment, but Foxxcon isn’t blamed if iPhones start to fail left and right, Apple is. The people branding the car are responsible for their supply chain.
- jackcosgrove 5y ago
  The Hyundai Kona Electric was discontinued in Korea because it uses the same batteries from LG, yet has continued to sell the Kona Electric elsewhere. Do you also blame Hyundai?
  - taurath 5y ago
    Yes I do, and that is good information :)

aidenn0 5y ago

The cells for the bolt were made in Korea though, right?

taurath 5y ago
iPhones are made in China; the brand owner doesn’t get to pass the buck to their contractors that they chose.
robotbikes 5y ago
The older 2017-2019 models were manufactured in Korea but they found the same defect in batteries built by LG in Michigan that they used on the 2021-2021 models. Which is why they are trying to figure out how to test the batteries to determine how common the defect is. It's actually two defects (broken anode tab and folded compartment) that when combined in the same model produce the fire risk.

mabbo 5y ago

> My perception of American designed and engineered vehicles is that they’re really awful, not just from a reliability standpoint but also from a user interface standpoint. For about 18 months in 2017 and 2018, I had a job that had me in a new city every other week. Lot of rental cars. And I started to have very strong preference. I would go out of my way to get a Chevy. Great Android auto integration. Good controls generally. Decent cars. It kills me to hear that Bolt is have these problems. I was thinking of buying one as my next car.

taurath 5y ago
I’ll check them out next time I’m looking. Last I drove one it was touchscreen for everything I wanted a dial for, and the IOS integration didn’t work except wired, and then it was also very slow. And of course my experience isn’t universal; it’s really hard to make an attempt to go back though after I’ve had many personal experiences of just faulty electronics and engines to trust a brand again.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  The cord is an iOS restriction on all cars in my experience. It does seem kind of silly to me.
mercutio2 5y ago
I own a Bolt. I loathe GM's software. With a flaming passion. Like, I will never buy another GM vehicle. The infotainment system crashes about once a week. It will come back in 10 minutes or so, but nothing I've done has ever managed to make it decide to reboot faster than that. The radio turns on. All the time. Over and over again. I literally never want the radio on. I only want CarPlay to ever play audio. GM seems to think any time anything changes in the car's state "oh look, now seems like a good opportunity to turn on the radio!". When the radio turns on, its volume is 10-20 notches louder than it was when playing CarPlay audio, so not only does it do a thing I don't want dozens of times a week, it does it much too loud. It would be truly sweet if I could sell it back, but I doubt the buyback option is actually a particularly good deal financially. The "it's an EV and it drives like a car with great range" part is really nice, though.

systemvoltage 5y ago

I think this would be true in 90's. It was really bad. Now a days, Ford and the rest make excellent vehicles on all fronts.

taurath 5y ago
I always give them a look - my biggest tell is usually which 10+ year old models do I actually see on the road. That’s a long lead time for sure, but IMO they have to prove it. I looked at the JD power reliability rankings for 2021 and was shocked that Honda is near the bottom now - but GM, Ford, Chrysler etc are all middle or bottom of the pack themselves
- gautamcgoel 5y ago
  Do JD Power rankings actually mean anything? Somehow I thought their business model is, give us $ and we will give your car high ratings. Happy to be wrong though.

turtlebits 5y ago

Not sure where you're coming from. IMO, the Bolt UI is as good as it gets. Physical HVAC, steering wheel and volume controls, Apple Carplay and Android Auto on a decent sized touchscreen. I just got a new Toyota and the UI is absolutely horrible, the steering wheel button ergonomics are bad.

shadilay 5y ago

The Chevy Bolt was actually designed and engineered in Korea. >GM Korea began developing the Bolt in 2012 with a team of 180 people with the project code G2KCZ >The car's user interface was developed in Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Bolt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Bolt