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The Chevy volt model as established in the early 2010s is an arm and a leg beyond the next closest competitor in the electric automobile space and this is a smi
by ksm1717 5y ago
The Chevy volt model as established in the early 2010s is an arm and a leg beyond the next closest competitor in the electric automobile space and this is a smirch upon its namespace
- reducesuffering 5y agoWhy is the Volt an "arm and a leg beyond" a Model 3?
- ksm1717 5y agoPrice and panel gaps
- epistasis 5y agoThe panel gaps and misalignment ive seen online for Teslas are still better than the general fit and finish issues that plague every single GM car I been in. Massive chunks of messy rubber foam, obvious joiners, bad internal panels... Maybe Tesla is not as tight as BMW, but it is definitely better than GM.
- Alupis 5y agoThe Bolt isn't priced like a BMW though, while the Tesla is. Even the Model 3, with it's base price of $35k, runs you around $50k after choosing a color and adding the FSD package. For a $50,000 car, they are really not built well, quality-wise. The Bolt, with every bell and whistle selected, runs about $37,000, for comparison.
- ksm1717 5y agoEyes on the ball. Bolt is a beat car. We are talking Volt and Tesla. I agree with your sentiment regardless
- reducesuffering 5y agoThis discussion was about the Volt, Chevy's old PHEV (plug in), not the Bolt EV.
- cptskippy 5y ago> The Bolt isn't priced like a BMW though, while the Tesla is. But only when you fudge the numbers by including FSD. > The Bolt, with every bell and whistle selected, runs about $37,000, for comparison. And still lacks an L2 charger, one comparable to the one included with the Model 3 costs another $1000. So for $38k you can get a vehicle that isn't quite as nice as the base Model 3 for a $3k premium.
- Alupis 5y ago> But only when you fudge the numbers by including FSD. I don't think this is fudging at all. Tesla's big selling point is the FSD package... and most people select it by default. FSD is nearly all Musk talks about. In fact, I'd argue it's Tesla fudging the numbers by breaking FSD out into a separate line item, just so they can advertise a cheaper car knowing full well people expect to have FSD for that price.
- cptskippy 5y ago> I don't think this is fudging at all. Tesla's big selling point is the FSD package... and most people select it by default. I mean even if there weren't data showing that as completely untrue... https://electrek.co/2021/08/31/tesla-survey-take-rate-full-self-driving-package/ https://electrek.co/2021/08/31/tesla-survey-take-rate-full-s... ... then why would Tesla bother to offer FSD as a subscription service if everyone is buying it?
- Alupis 5y agoWell, I stand corrected. My guess is the sticker price shocks people into not choosing it then. Most people I've spoken with equate Tesla with self driving... It's notable the FSD survey had a peak in 2019 - perhaps 2020+ is impacted by covid related things (reduction of income, etc). Or, perhaps it's being influence by monthly stories of Tesla's driving into parked objects and the like. Still, it was a tactic to break FSD into a separate line item so marketing could tell everyone the cars were cheaper than assumed.
- seattle_spring 5y agoDoes Bolt have something equivalent to FSD? If not, why are you including it in the price comparison? Isn't the Bolt also dog slow compared to a Model 3? I'd also assume it's handling and suspension is markedly shitbox compared to any Tesla as well.
- vel0city 5y agoSomewhat, it has Super Cruise which is hands-free driving on highways. They're not trying to handle intersections, just the simpler long-haul kind of highway driving. It is a similar thing with Ford's Blue Cruise.
- nickik 5y agoBolt doesn't have Super Cruise unless I'm totally misinformed.
- vel0city 5y agoThe Bolt EV only has Adaptive Cruise Control optional but the Bolt EUV can be optioned with Super Cruise. Its the second card on the website. https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-euv https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-euv
- rootusrootus 5y agoNo. I've owned both. Tesla has quality problems that even GM doesn't have. They may have finally solved them on the Model 3 -- mine wasn't too bad, really, but definitely worse than any other car I've owned (and I've had several dozen).
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago> Maybe Tesla is not as tight as BMW Have you seen the i3 disaster?
- toomuchtodo 5y agoMy Model Y, delivered within the last few weeks, has no panel gaps (edit: the panel gaps, measured with an $8 tool at delivery, are within spec). It was delivered in perfect condition and is garage safe. I can even park next to other cars safely.
- reitzensteinm 5y agoI test drove a M3P six months ago in Melbourne, and the panel gap quality of the two cars in the showroom was absolutely awful. I couldn't believe it. They were the refreshed model with the chrome delete, too. Then my friend bought one, and it was as good as any other new car I've seen. It looked great. I found that quite strange. Is it a roll of the dice based on where and when they're made, or would the demo models have come from a pool that were rejected for sale somehow?
- toomuchtodo 5y agoDemo models are likely earlier VINs where the manufacturing line was getting into its rhythm. Can’t say for sure of course, only the ground truth visible to me and what I hear from other Tesla owners. China Gigafactory produced Teslas are typically higher quality than Fremont builds.
- reitzensteinm 5y agoBut the refresh didn't change the panel layout, right? I did wonder whether the demos were from Fremont, I believe my friend's M3 came from Shanghai. Edit: Ah, I see your edit. But if that's what's happening, it's not a line maturity thing. The new factory is the one making the good models.
- rootusrootus 5y agoThere is a huge amount of variability. You just have to check the one you got before you sign for it and make sure it isn't one where everything is misaligned.
- Alupis 5y ago
- reducesuffering 5y agoI'll give you price but I think that's an equivalent trade-off to all the cons: Much worse horsepower Much worse EV range Still requires ICE maintenance Worse software
- Alupis 5y ago> Worse software The radio might be better in the Tesla, but how many Volts drove their owners into parked fire trucks?
- aidenn0 5y agoTFA is about the Bolt, not the Volt.
- ksm1717 5y agoThat’s my point, why bother with Bolt et al. when the volt has already established as a clear front runner.
- rootusrootus 5y agoThe Volt isn't made any more, for one. And it's smaller (lower to the ground, at least, and less head clearance). I wasn't comfortable in the Volt, but the Bolt is great.
- ksm1717 5y agobuying a new car is generally antithetical to buying a sustainable car
- rootusrootus 5y agoIf nobody buys a new car, how do you expect there to be any used ones?
- ksm1717 5y agoIdk I drive my grandfathers old car and I think most people have at least 2 grandfathers
- josephcsible 5y agoThe world's population is growing. Even if everyone's grandfathers had a magic car that lasted forever, what you describe wouldn't work for everyone.
- 5y ago
- cptskippy 5y agoWhile I don't agree with your statement, I do think the Volt platform was the best Hybrid platform and GM should have scaled it up for their Trucks and SUVs. The instant torque provided by the electric motor and the ability to switch to just EV mode and run silent would have been killer for ORV enthusiasts and hunters.
- ksm1717 5y agoAh, maybe it’s just my opinion that a car need not be more than a silent torque machine.. Glad that you mostly agree with my statement.. if the regulators weren’t dragging their feet we could have this “platform” as an industry standard.. Ford f1-volty (:
- rootusrootus 5y agoThere are other decent PHEVs now, it's no longer a distinguishing feature. And the Volt was never the 'EV with a range extending ICE' that it was portrayed as, anyway. It directly connects the ICE to the wheels when called for.
- cptskippy 5y ago> And the Volt was never the 'EV with a range extending ICE' that it was portrayed as, anyway. That isn't true, the Gen1 Volt did. The Gen1 and Gen2 Volts were very different AND they were very different from other hybrids. The Gen1 Volt uses a single planetary gear similar to the Toyota and Ford Hybrids but had two electric motors referred to as the traction and generation motors. There was a clutch connecting the ICE to the generation motor and two clutches connecting the generation motor to the planetary gear. Under most operating conditions the ICE was off and physically disconnected from the generation motor and drivetrain. The Gen1 Volt would operate in pure EV mode using just the traction motor at low speeds or using both electric motors at higher speeds until the pack depleted to a predetermined buffer level. When the pack was depleted down to the buffer level, the generation motor would be disengaged from the drivetrain and couple to the ICE, the ICE would kick on and operate in Range Extending mode generating power via the generation motor for the traction motor. The ICE would operate with a wide open throttle at peak efficiency but physically disconnected from the drivetrain. When in Range Extending mode, if you had a high power demand (e.g. operating at 100mph) then one of clutches would connect the generation motor to the planetary gear to allow the ICE to provide power to the drivetrain. In the Gen1 Volt the vehicle could not be driven just by the ICE and undermost circumstances the ICE only acted to generate electricity and not to directly drive the wheels. In the Gen2 Volt they switched to a dual planetary gear system with just two clutches that allowed for greater flexibility and efficiency but eliminated the ability run in Range Extending mode where the ICE was only used to generate electricity.