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> AND IF EVERYONE HAD JUST GOTTEN VACCINATED NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING AND WE WOULD BE BACK TO NORMAL. We can't know that. You are assuming. For all we k

> AND IF EVERYONE HAD JUST GOTTEN VACCINATED NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING AND WE WOULD BE BACK TO NORMAL. We can't know that. You are assuming. For all we know, if everyone got vaccinated the virus could have mutated around it faster, leaving us at square one.

lamontcg 5y ago
The vaccines are something around 98% effective against severe disease. If people were vaccinated they'd stay out of the hospitals. The hospitals are the problem. I feel like I'm explaining arithmetic to an idiot. And if you vaccinate everyone there will be less infections overall. For all of the worst-casing about VE and waning against infection it still isn't 0% VE. And breakthrough infections have less culturable virus and decline faster since the primed immune system defeats the disease faster. That means less chance for mutations. We need to stop assuming that up could really be down. It isn't. Vaccines work. They prevent disease. They keep people out of the hospital. They reduce the chances of mutation. If everyone was vaccinated all this stupid shit would be over. Antivaxxers are dragging this shit out because they're afraid of needles and they are the ones causing all this suffering.
- ghoward 5y ago
  > They reduce the chances of mutation. Perhaps, but you also don't get what I am saying. If we vaccinated everyone, the virus wouldn't be eradicated because animals can be hosts. Because of that, the evolutionary pressure put on the virus by everyone being vaccinated could result in the virus mutating enough to evade immunity. The same thing happens with flu every year.
  - lamontcg 5y ago
    I never said one word about eradication. You're having an argument with someone who isn't me. If you vaccinate everyone then the near perfect VE against severe disease and hospitalization keeps people out of the hospitals and keeps them from falling over. And that is sufficient. I never said anything about eradicating the virus or eliminating all infection and transmission. But at that point THEN you have hit the point where "its just a flu" arguments can kick in and the virus can do whatever the hell it wants to and the hospital system won't fall over. And due to T-cells and cross-reactive T-cells (and the persistence and lack of waning of T-cells as shown by the SARS-CoV-1 17+ year T-cell persistence) then any future mutation which achieves immune escape from Nabs should still just be "flu" rather than "COVID-22" or whatever. Get everyone vaccinated first, then we're basically done with it as a pandemic. Then you get what you want, which is living with an endemic virus, but one which will have much less disease burden than it currently has in the unvaccinated population. Or put simply, to stop the waves of nearly 100% unvaccinated people dying in hospitals, just vaccinate everyone. No unvaccinated people, no hospitals falling over.
    - ghoward 5y ago
      > Or put simply, to stop the waves of nearly 100% unvaccinated people dying in hospitals, just vaccinate everyone. No unvaccinated people, no hospitals falling over. Half of the people getting hospitalized are not getting hospitalized for COVID. They are just testing positive for COVID. And hospitals nearly always run near capacity. And their capacity is also determined by staffing, which is going down because nurses don't want to get vaccinated against a virus they are probably immune to. All factors matter. You can't just claim vaccination would be a panacea, even if it appears that way.
      - lamontcg 5y ago
        > Half of the people getting hospitalized are not getting hospitalized for COVID. They are just testing positive for COVID. Yeah this myth again. You're not "doing your own research" you're just regurgitating talking points. I'm entirely done here.
        ghoward 5y ago
        > Yeah this myth again. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hos...
- dang 5y ago
  Please stop posting flamewar comments to HN, regardless of how wrong other people are or you feel they are. You did that repeatedly in this thread and that's not cool. Even if you don't feel you owe the people you're disagreeing with better, you owe this community better if you're posting here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - hnisfullofshit 5y ago
    This is the comment you choose to moderate??? I guess we can add anti-vaxx to the list of HN's right wing ideologies. By all means though, let this guy keep posting: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28514405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28514405
    - dang 5y ago
      It is one of thousands of comments we've moderated. Picking two random points to contrast is the extreme of sample bias. You can make anything look like anything that way. As it happens, though, we've moderated that other commenter in exactly the same way as this one. Could you please stop creating accounts to troll HN with? It's tedious.
    - sillysaurusx 5y ago
      If you read https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26637365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26637365 I suspect you'll be persuaded that HN mods aren't as biased as they seem. It convinced me, and I'm not so easy to sway.

lamontcg 5y ago

The vaccines are something around 98% effective against severe disease. If people were vaccinated they'd stay out of the hospitals. The hospitals are the problem. I feel like I'm explaining arithmetic to an idiot. And if you vaccinate everyone there will be less infections overall. For all of the worst-casing about VE and waning against infection it still isn't 0% VE. And breakthrough infections have less culturable virus and decline faster since the primed immune system defeats the disease faster. That means less chance for mutations. We need to stop assuming that up could really be down. It isn't. Vaccines work. They prevent disease. They keep people out of the hospital. They reduce the chances of mutation. If everyone was vaccinated all this stupid shit would be over. Antivaxxers are dragging this shit out because they're afraid of needles and they are the ones causing all this suffering.

ghoward 5y ago
> They reduce the chances of mutation. Perhaps, but you also don't get what I am saying. If we vaccinated everyone, the virus wouldn't be eradicated because animals can be hosts. Because of that, the evolutionary pressure put on the virus by everyone being vaccinated could result in the virus mutating enough to evade immunity. The same thing happens with flu every year.
- lamontcg 5y ago
  I never said one word about eradication. You're having an argument with someone who isn't me. If you vaccinate everyone then the near perfect VE against severe disease and hospitalization keeps people out of the hospitals and keeps them from falling over. And that is sufficient. I never said anything about eradicating the virus or eliminating all infection and transmission. But at that point THEN you have hit the point where "its just a flu" arguments can kick in and the virus can do whatever the hell it wants to and the hospital system won't fall over. And due to T-cells and cross-reactive T-cells (and the persistence and lack of waning of T-cells as shown by the SARS-CoV-1 17+ year T-cell persistence) then any future mutation which achieves immune escape from Nabs should still just be "flu" rather than "COVID-22" or whatever. Get everyone vaccinated first, then we're basically done with it as a pandemic. Then you get what you want, which is living with an endemic virus, but one which will have much less disease burden than it currently has in the unvaccinated population. Or put simply, to stop the waves of nearly 100% unvaccinated people dying in hospitals, just vaccinate everyone. No unvaccinated people, no hospitals falling over.
  - ghoward 5y ago
    > Or put simply, to stop the waves of nearly 100% unvaccinated people dying in hospitals, just vaccinate everyone. No unvaccinated people, no hospitals falling over. Half of the people getting hospitalized are not getting hospitalized for COVID. They are just testing positive for COVID. And hospitals nearly always run near capacity. And their capacity is also determined by staffing, which is going down because nurses don't want to get vaccinated against a virus they are probably immune to. All factors matter. You can't just claim vaccination would be a panacea, even if it appears that way.
    - lamontcg 5y ago
      > Half of the people getting hospitalized are not getting hospitalized for COVID. They are just testing positive for COVID. Yeah this myth again. You're not "doing your own research" you're just regurgitating talking points. I'm entirely done here.
      - ghoward 5y ago
        > Yeah this myth again. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hos...
dang 5y ago
Please stop posting flamewar comments to HN, regardless of how wrong other people are or you feel they are. You did that repeatedly in this thread and that's not cool. Even if you don't feel you owe the people you're disagreeing with better, you owe this community better if you're posting here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- hnisfullofshit 5y ago
  This is the comment you choose to moderate??? I guess we can add anti-vaxx to the list of HN's right wing ideologies. By all means though, let this guy keep posting: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28514405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28514405
  - dang 5y ago
    It is one of thousands of comments we've moderated. Picking two random points to contrast is the extreme of sample bias. You can make anything look like anything that way. As it happens, though, we've moderated that other commenter in exactly the same way as this one. Could you please stop creating accounts to troll HN with? It's tedious.
  - sillysaurusx 5y ago
    If you read https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26637365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26637365 I suspect you'll be persuaded that HN mods aren't as biased as they seem. It convinced me, and I'm not so easy to sway.