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I think there's the 5 second cool factor but after that novelty you're probably just as disgruntled as the fact that you lost 35% of the range for your car. I

I think there's the 5 second cool factor but after that novelty you're probably just as disgruntled as the fact that you lost 35% of the range for your car. I hope the Chevy bolt is a rare case and stories like this don't pop up with the other upcoming electric vehicles. The new lightning F150 looks very attractive.

rsj_hn 5y ago
I heard really good things about the EV mustang from Ford. I wouldn't take this to be representative of EVs in general, but rather a remark on GM.
- dylan604 5y ago
  Is it GM or LG for making bunk batteries? TFA clearly states that GM believes they will be recouping this money from LG.
  - clouddrover 5y ago
    Both really. The problem is supposed to have been caused by misaligned robots at LG's factories: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/08/misaligned-factory-robot-may-have-sparked-chevy-bolt-battery-fires/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/08/misaligned-factory-robo... But the fault of both GM and LG is that they weren't able to detect the problem sooner.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      So better regression testing on new battery deliveries and better unit tests on the batteries themselves. That's a good item to add to the after action report. Now, what do you do to the battery to make the unit test? Shake it? Heat it? For how long? I guess I'm just not seeing fault at GM here. Trying to get there though.
      - clouddrover 5y ago
        In this case you can x-ray it to see the problem. They were x-raying some, but not enough.
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    If you're going to outsource manufacture of key components -- like the battery for an electric car, which is the single most important and expensive component in the entire vehicle -- then the buck stops with you for quality control. People inside GM may want to blame LG, but everyone outside GM will blame GM.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  The Bolt has been around since 2017, and the Mach-E arrived this year. It is way too early to be deciding that maybe Ford will have better luck. Neither company is actually making their own batteries, in any case.
NotSammyHagar 5y ago
I think it would be good. If you drive your car or charge it out of those ranges it can catch on fire. Removing that area of "ordinary things you can do with your car and it might make it burn up" is exactly why that is important to consider. There must be hundreds of thousands of bolts and at least some of those customers have not heard about this. The other side of it is hey you took something away from my car and I don't like that. GM has to deal with this by fixing people's cars and giving them monetary compensation.
- rrix2 5y ago
  Cool, but if i bought a low cost electric car specifically because my commute range allowed for it, for example, until your "bug fixes and changes" OTA was quietly force-pushed and i find myself on the highway with a dead battery, i'm likely to set the fkn thing on fire myself...
  - dvdkon 5y ago
    Obviously the manufacturer should compensate its customers, it's just better to have an EV with worse range than an unsafe EV or even a pile of scrap (if they all got recalled and probablt not fixed).
- genericuser314 5y ago
  > There must be hundreds of thousands of bolts 99,356 in USA & Canada, per this number: https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/chevrolet-bolt-sales-figures-usa-canada-monthly-yearly/ https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/chevrolet-bolt-sales-figures-u... I was curious about this so I looked it up, you might think it is interesting too.
  - NotSammyHagar 5y ago
    Thanks for actual data to correct my guess!
sjg007 5y ago
I don't see how electric cars are any different than mobile phones. So basically this means a 3 year life span in terms of battery performance. Regular combustion cars though also suffer reduced mpg so I am not saying this is an apples to apples comparison.
- asdff 5y ago
  The reduced mpg is not all that much though, maybe 2-3 mpg nothing nearly as significant as driving behavior on mpg. A small displacement honda is going to have good mpg all its life unless something has really fouled up.
  - sjg007 5y ago
    I've noticed a 5mpg decrease with every car I've owned in pretty similar driving conditions over 5-10 years and immaculate maintenance.
    - jodrellblank 5y ago
      That can’t be right, it would leave your cars immobile after like 6 years, and getting half the range out of a tank after 3 years. Cars are good for 20 years still going roughly as far on a tank as they did. I’ll believe 10% loss of mpg over a lifetime, I don’t track that closely, but 10-20% range loss on a tank per year, nahhh.
      - sjg007 5y ago
        Sorry I meant a 5mpg decrease overall not every year. That would fit with the 10% you describe.
    - mcguire 5y ago
      I'm driving a 2013 F-150; it's got ~20mpg since I got it in 2014. The 2004 Corvette still gets approx. 30 (mostly highway), although it desperately needs new fuel injectors.
    - 5y ago
rasz 5y ago
>The new lightning F150 looks very attractive you will be happy to know Ford is using SK batteries after switching away from LG. SK just recently settled for $2billions a case that revealed they stole LG battery technology. Bolt uses LG batteries. LG had a chain of costly recalls and replacements for all of their clients "LG Energy Solutions, the company that makes the battery for the Bolt and Kona EV, has not had a good year. First, they agreed to replace the 82,000 batteries sold to Hyundai for the Kona EV, Ioniq, and Elec City buses. Although the initial rumors were from a faulty battery separator, Hyundai later said that the problem was badly folded tabs. GM emphatically pointed out that they use a different separator, and a different factory. Thus neither of those problems should apply to the Bolt fires. Porsche recently initiated a recall on a loss of power in its Taycan LG batteries, and Ford also moved from LG in its Mustang Mach-E to SK in its Ford F-150 Lightning."

rsj_hn 5y ago

I heard really good things about the EV mustang from Ford. I wouldn't take this to be representative of EVs in general, but rather a remark on GM.

dylan604 5y ago
Is it GM or LG for making bunk batteries? TFA clearly states that GM believes they will be recouping this money from LG.
- clouddrover 5y ago
  Both really. The problem is supposed to have been caused by misaligned robots at LG's factories: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/08/misaligned-factory-robot-may-have-sparked-chevy-bolt-battery-fires/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/08/misaligned-factory-robo... But the fault of both GM and LG is that they weren't able to detect the problem sooner.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    So better regression testing on new battery deliveries and better unit tests on the batteries themselves. That's a good item to add to the after action report. Now, what do you do to the battery to make the unit test? Shake it? Heat it? For how long? I guess I'm just not seeing fault at GM here. Trying to get there though.
    - clouddrover 5y ago
      In this case you can x-ray it to see the problem. They were x-raying some, but not enough.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  If you're going to outsource manufacture of key components -- like the battery for an electric car, which is the single most important and expensive component in the entire vehicle -- then the buck stops with you for quality control. People inside GM may want to blame LG, but everyone outside GM will blame GM.
rootusrootus 5y ago
The Bolt has been around since 2017, and the Mach-E arrived this year. It is way too early to be deciding that maybe Ford will have better luck. Neither company is actually making their own batteries, in any case.

NotSammyHagar 5y ago

I think it would be good. If you drive your car or charge it out of those ranges it can catch on fire. Removing that area of "ordinary things you can do with your car and it might make it burn up" is exactly why that is important to consider. There must be hundreds of thousands of bolts and at least some of those customers have not heard about this. The other side of it is hey you took something away from my car and I don't like that. GM has to deal with this by fixing people's cars and giving them monetary compensation.

rrix2 5y ago
Cool, but if i bought a low cost electric car specifically because my commute range allowed for it, for example, until your "bug fixes and changes" OTA was quietly force-pushed and i find myself on the highway with a dead battery, i'm likely to set the fkn thing on fire myself...
- dvdkon 5y ago
  Obviously the manufacturer should compensate its customers, it's just better to have an EV with worse range than an unsafe EV or even a pile of scrap (if they all got recalled and probablt not fixed).
genericuser314 5y ago
> There must be hundreds of thousands of bolts 99,356 in USA & Canada, per this number: https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/chevrolet-bolt-sales-figures-usa-canada-monthly-yearly/ https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/chevrolet-bolt-sales-figures-u... I was curious about this so I looked it up, you might think it is interesting too.
- NotSammyHagar 5y ago
  Thanks for actual data to correct my guess!

sjg007 5y ago

I don't see how electric cars are any different than mobile phones. So basically this means a 3 year life span in terms of battery performance. Regular combustion cars though also suffer reduced mpg so I am not saying this is an apples to apples comparison.

asdff 5y ago
The reduced mpg is not all that much though, maybe 2-3 mpg nothing nearly as significant as driving behavior on mpg. A small displacement honda is going to have good mpg all its life unless something has really fouled up.
- sjg007 5y ago
  I've noticed a 5mpg decrease with every car I've owned in pretty similar driving conditions over 5-10 years and immaculate maintenance.
  - jodrellblank 5y ago
    That can’t be right, it would leave your cars immobile after like 6 years, and getting half the range out of a tank after 3 years. Cars are good for 20 years still going roughly as far on a tank as they did. I’ll believe 10% loss of mpg over a lifetime, I don’t track that closely, but 10-20% range loss on a tank per year, nahhh.
    - sjg007 5y ago
      Sorry I meant a 5mpg decrease overall not every year. That would fit with the 10% you describe.
  - mcguire 5y ago
    I'm driving a 2013 F-150; it's got ~20mpg since I got it in 2014. The 2004 Corvette still gets approx. 30 (mostly highway), although it desperately needs new fuel injectors.
  - 5y ago

rasz 5y ago

>The new lightning F150 looks very attractive you will be happy to know Ford is using SK batteries after switching away from LG. SK just recently settled for $2billions a case that revealed they stole LG battery technology. Bolt uses LG batteries. LG had a chain of costly recalls and replacements for all of their clients "LG Energy Solutions, the company that makes the battery for the Bolt and Kona EV, has not had a good year. First, they agreed to replace the 82,000 batteries sold to Hyundai for the Kona EV, Ioniq, and Elec City buses. Although the initial rumors were from a faulty battery separator, Hyundai later said that the problem was badly folded tabs. GM emphatically pointed out that they use a different separator, and a different factory. Thus neither of those problems should apply to the Bolt fires. Porsche recently initiated a recall on a loss of power in its Taycan LG batteries, and Ford also moved from LG in its Mustang Mach-E to SK in its Ford F-150 Lightning."