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These seem like reasonable arguments. An exception was made and times are changing.

by ajaimk 5y ago

grishka 5y ago
It's unreasonable for Apple to assume they own a relationship they had no role whatsoever in establishing.
- dkonofalski 5y ago
  That's exactly what they were debating. The entire point of this exchange was that the initial agreement was about Kindle customers using iOS devices. Once it changed to iPhone customers buying Kindle books, it absolutely was a relationship they established.
  - grishka 5y ago
    What role did Apple have in establishing it? It's not like people are installing the Kindle app thanks to the app store alone. It's thanks to Amazon's own marketing. Apple made the hardware and the OS, and developers are only publishing their apps on the app store because they have to in order to get them onto iOS devices, not because the app store offers such a great service. I'm pretty sure that given the technical capability, many would bypass the app store with its ridiculous policies and serve the app package straight from their websites. Which, by the way, is exactly what's happening on macOS. Apple is going out of its way trying to make mac app store happen, but developers are clearly having none of it.
    - dkonofalski 5y ago
      If the customer's first point of contact is through an iOS app, then Apple established that relationship. Apple is serving their iPhone customers to Amazon. That's the entire crux of the change. Amazon initially presented their Kindle app as a way for existing customers to read their books on iOS. Once it changed to the point where customers were entering Amazon's ecosystem with iPhone as the first point of contact, Amazon was benefiting from both Apple's customer base and their relaxed terms.
      - grishka 5y ago
        It doesn't matter who made the device and its OS, it matters who made the user aware of the existence of the app. And I'm pretty sure that was Amazon's own marketing. Your conclusions would only hold if the user discovered the Kindle app entirely through the influence of the app store itself. By your logic, my ISP owns my relationship to HackerNews because I used my internet connection to post this comment. Oh and Apple does too, because I'm posting this from a Mac.
        dkonofalski 5y ago
        It matters who made the App Store and facilitated the app in question. If more iPhone users are downloading the Kindle app than Android users by a wide margin, then that means that Apple offers a higher value to Amazon. You're oversimplifying the relationship but the fact is that Amazon's contract with Apple was based on Amazon's assertion that it would only be existing Kindle users that would want to download the Kindle app and that provided value to Apple. When that was no longer the case, the agreement ceased.
chmod775 5y ago
Yes. They're good arguments, if your goal is to maximize user hostility and platform lock-in.

These seem like reasonable arguments. An exception was made and times are changing.

by ajaimk 5y ago

These seem like reasonable arguments. An exception was made and times are changing.

grishka 5y ago

It's unreasonable for Apple to assume they own a relationship they had no role whatsoever in establishing.

dkonofalski 5y ago
That's exactly what they were debating. The entire point of this exchange was that the initial agreement was about Kindle customers using iOS devices. Once it changed to iPhone customers buying Kindle books, it absolutely was a relationship they established.
- grishka 5y ago
  What role did Apple have in establishing it? It's not like people are installing the Kindle app thanks to the app store alone. It's thanks to Amazon's own marketing. Apple made the hardware and the OS, and developers are only publishing their apps on the app store because they have to in order to get them onto iOS devices, not because the app store offers such a great service. I'm pretty sure that given the technical capability, many would bypass the app store with its ridiculous policies and serve the app package straight from their websites. Which, by the way, is exactly what's happening on macOS. Apple is going out of its way trying to make mac app store happen, but developers are clearly having none of it.
  - dkonofalski 5y ago
    If the customer's first point of contact is through an iOS app, then Apple established that relationship. Apple is serving their iPhone customers to Amazon. That's the entire crux of the change. Amazon initially presented their Kindle app as a way for existing customers to read their books on iOS. Once it changed to the point where customers were entering Amazon's ecosystem with iPhone as the first point of contact, Amazon was benefiting from both Apple's customer base and their relaxed terms.
    - grishka 5y ago
      It doesn't matter who made the device and its OS, it matters who made the user aware of the existence of the app. And I'm pretty sure that was Amazon's own marketing. Your conclusions would only hold if the user discovered the Kindle app entirely through the influence of the app store itself. By your logic, my ISP owns my relationship to HackerNews because I used my internet connection to post this comment. Oh and Apple does too, because I'm posting this from a Mac.
      - dkonofalski 5y ago
        It matters who made the App Store and facilitated the app in question. If more iPhone users are downloading the Kindle app than Android users by a wide margin, then that means that Apple offers a higher value to Amazon. You're oversimplifying the relationship but the fact is that Amazon's contract with Apple was based on Amazon's assertion that it would only be existing Kindle users that would want to download the Kindle app and that provided value to Apple. When that was no longer the case, the agreement ceased.

chmod775 5y ago

Yes. They're good arguments, if your goal is to maximize user hostility and platform lock-in.