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macOS UI > Linux UI > Windows UI but macOS has weird quirks that bumps them down in the CLI space. Linux CLI > macOS CLI > Windows CLI Linux CLI and macOS CL

by hk1337 5y ago

macOS UI > Linux UI > Windows UI but macOS has weird quirks that bumps them down in the CLI space. Linux CLI > macOS CLI > Windows CLI Linux CLI and macOS CLI are really close, I think but Linux beats it.

ladyanita22 5y ago
Windows software library >>> macOS software library >> Linux software library
smoldesu 5y ago
At the peak of it's game (Mojave), MacOS was really competitive for my workflow. One evening I made a simple realization that kinda trashed it all, though: I was spending more time making MacOS like Linux than I spent making Linux like MacOS. By the time Catalina came out (and trashed 32-bit libs along with it) the value proposition was squandered once again. It's funny how transient the usability of a 'stable' OS can be, even on the Linux side of things. Of course, Windows is still bringing up the rear. WSL is mighty competitive though, and I'm giddy with anticipation of what Windows 11 will do with it.
- zeusk 5y ago
  Android on W11 is something that was much more possible thanks to the work on WSL and WSLg
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Actually all of that is possible thanks to Android on WinRT, aka Project Astoria.
scns 5y ago
Form or function what do we value more?
azalemeth 5y ago
I agree with this. I genuinely think that linux is the best "developer" machine there is, particularly if you are cross-compiling. You have complete control over everything and can really get to the bottom of problems if required. I really like the fact that I can look at the kernel sources if I need to understand how the &!%$ something works. You don't often need to do this, but when you do, you really do. The one thing that perpetually just pees me off about basically all Linux DMs/WMs that I have used a lot is that occasionally they just hang, horribly, even when the system isn't hosed, and even when you are trying to use it. It's hard to understate how jarring this is as a user, and MacOS in particular seems very well optimised to prevent it ever occurring. I don't quite know how, but if you ever see the seconds not updating on a 1 s tick in MacOS, something is wrong. Even with renice'd -20 xfce on linux on a machine with TiB of ram and 96 cores, sometimes the UI just hangs. That being said, Apple's documentation is nowadays oft-lamented as being outdated -- I remember it being excellent, including the first ever description of OO code I ever read, as a teenager. (Aside: It involved "a faucet". Not being a speaker of en-US, I remember distinctly looking up that word and trying to understand what on earth they meant, until "tap" appeared later on in my brain). I've never really written MacOS apps but I gather you have to "drink the kool aid" at every available opportunity and to some extent this shows. My experience of Windows over the last 30+ years is one of confusion, culture clash, a lack of understanding, and frustration. I am not qualified to comment on it, but it does seem to be the case that people can spin up GUIs very quickly very routinely, and they tend to keep running for a bloody long time as well, unlike both other options.
- beermonster 5y ago
  > I genuinely think that linux is the best "developer" machine there is I agree. And apparently 25% of professional developers also [1] [1] https://fossbytes.com/linux-market-share-among-professional-developers/ https://fossbytes.com/linux-market-share-among-professional-...
  - pbalau 5y ago
    Making it a minority opinion...
  - 5y ago
gralx 5y ago
Linux is "just" the kernel, and statements like XNU UI > Linux UI > Windows NT UI don't make sense because Linux has many different UIs. I'm pretty sure there is no macOS UI comparable to my preferred tiling window managers Sway and i3, and in that sense which UI is better is a question of personal preference and habit. In fact, I'm pretty sure only one macOS UI is available. Same for Windows: only one Windows UI available per Windows version.
- beermonster 5y ago
  Most people think of Linux as GNU/Linux. But of course you are technically right.
pshirshov 5y ago
macOS UI is written in memory unsafe language Linux is written in memory unsafe language Windows is written in memory unsafe language Where is my memory-safe desktop OS?
- withinboredom 5y ago
  CosmoOS is written in C# https://www.gocosmos.org/ https://www.gocosmos.org/
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Windows, because a large part of the userspace nowadays uses .NET, even if calling into COM APIs underneath. Followed by Android, because Google goes out of their way to only make NDK usable for games, audio processing, and native methods, nothing else. But I do agree better stacks would be welcomed.
- zaptheimpaler 5y ago
  Does your desktop OS leak memory or not? Who cares what language its written in if it accomplishes the same goal?
XorNot 5y ago
I can't stand the macOS UI. My ideal UI is something Windows 7-like, and these days that's closest replicated by Cinnamon which understands it just needs to get out of my way. I think the big missing thing with Cinnamon is some sensible tracker integration so inside document searching can work.
- beermonster 5y ago
  > I can't stand the macOS UI .. it’s got worse and worse IMHO
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    It's barely changed IMHO. Last year I ran through every release since 10.1. The UI has been remarkably consistent through that period.
nine_k 5y ago
MacOS UI polish > Linux UI polish. MacOS UI choice and flexibility << Linux UI choice and flexibility. (A voice of a MacOS user from 2031: "Choice?")
subsection1h 5y ago
> macOS UI > Linux UI > Windows UI By "UI", do you mean desktop environment? I'm Debian user with no desktop environment, only a window manager. Linux WMs > macOS/Windows WMs Or by "UI", do you mean GUI apps? I have fewer than 10 GUI apps installed, and I don't think GUIs matter much, especially when comparing OSes.
- hk1337 5y ago
  yeah, desktop environment.
jcelerier 5y ago
> macOS UI > Linux UI > Windows UI for whom ? I'm in a room with mac, windows and linux computers, going away from my linux machine is a chore and fills me with dread
yissp 5y ago
Just looking at UI, though, I think the trend actually favors Linux. GNOME and KDE have made pretty huge strides in the past few years in terms of general usability and polish. Meanwhile I feel like every Mac OS and Windows update elicits nothing but complaints.

by hk1337 5y ago

ladyanita22 5y ago

Windows software library >>> macOS software library >> Linux software library

smoldesu 5y ago

At the peak of it's game (Mojave), MacOS was really competitive for my workflow. One evening I made a simple realization that kinda trashed it all, though: I was spending more time making MacOS like Linux than I spent making Linux like MacOS. By the time Catalina came out (and trashed 32-bit libs along with it) the value proposition was squandered once again. It's funny how transient the usability of a 'stable' OS can be, even on the Linux side of things. Of course, Windows is still bringing up the rear. WSL is mighty competitive though, and I'm giddy with anticipation of what Windows 11 will do with it.

zeusk 5y ago
Android on W11 is something that was much more possible thanks to the work on WSL and WSLg
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Actually all of that is possible thanks to Android on WinRT, aka Project Astoria.

scns 5y ago

Form or function what do we value more?

azalemeth 5y ago

I agree with this. I genuinely think that linux is the best "developer" machine there is, particularly if you are cross-compiling. You have complete control over everything and can really get to the bottom of problems if required. I really like the fact that I can look at the kernel sources if I need to understand how the &!%$ something works. You don't often need to do this, but when you do, you really do. The one thing that perpetually just pees me off about basically all Linux DMs/WMs that I have used a lot is that occasionally they just hang, horribly, even when the system isn't hosed, and even when you are trying to use it. It's hard to understate how jarring this is as a user, and MacOS in particular seems very well optimised to prevent it ever occurring. I don't quite know how, but if you ever see the seconds not updating on a 1 s tick in MacOS, something is wrong. Even with renice'd -20 xfce on linux on a machine with TiB of ram and 96 cores, sometimes the UI just hangs. That being said, Apple's documentation is nowadays oft-lamented as being outdated -- I remember it being excellent, including the first ever description of OO code I ever read, as a teenager. (Aside: It involved "a faucet". Not being a speaker of en-US, I remember distinctly looking up that word and trying to understand what on earth they meant, until "tap" appeared later on in my brain). I've never really written MacOS apps but I gather you have to "drink the kool aid" at every available opportunity and to some extent this shows. My experience of Windows over the last 30+ years is one of confusion, culture clash, a lack of understanding, and frustration. I am not qualified to comment on it, but it does seem to be the case that people can spin up GUIs very quickly very routinely, and they tend to keep running for a bloody long time as well, unlike both other options.

beermonster 5y ago
> I genuinely think that linux is the best "developer" machine there is I agree. And apparently 25% of professional developers also [1] [1] https://fossbytes.com/linux-market-share-among-professional-developers/ https://fossbytes.com/linux-market-share-among-professional-...
- pbalau 5y ago
  Making it a minority opinion...
- 5y ago

gralx 5y ago

Linux is "just" the kernel, and statements like XNU UI > Linux UI > Windows NT UI don't make sense because Linux has many different UIs. I'm pretty sure there is no macOS UI comparable to my preferred tiling window managers Sway and i3, and in that sense which UI is better is a question of personal preference and habit. In fact, I'm pretty sure only one macOS UI is available. Same for Windows: only one Windows UI available per Windows version.

beermonster 5y ago
Most people think of Linux as GNU/Linux. But of course you are technically right.

pshirshov 5y ago

macOS UI is written in memory unsafe language Linux is written in memory unsafe language Windows is written in memory unsafe language Where is my memory-safe desktop OS?

withinboredom 5y ago
CosmoOS is written in C# https://www.gocosmos.org/ https://www.gocosmos.org/
pjmlp 5y ago
Windows, because a large part of the userspace nowadays uses .NET, even if calling into COM APIs underneath. Followed by Android, because Google goes out of their way to only make NDK usable for games, audio processing, and native methods, nothing else. But I do agree better stacks would be welcomed.
zaptheimpaler 5y ago
Does your desktop OS leak memory or not? Who cares what language its written in if it accomplishes the same goal?

XorNot 5y ago

I can't stand the macOS UI. My ideal UI is something Windows 7-like, and these days that's closest replicated by Cinnamon which understands it just needs to get out of my way. I think the big missing thing with Cinnamon is some sensible tracker integration so inside document searching can work.

beermonster 5y ago
> I can't stand the macOS UI .. it’s got worse and worse IMHO
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  It's barely changed IMHO. Last year I ran through every release since 10.1. The UI has been remarkably consistent through that period.

nine_k 5y ago

MacOS UI polish > Linux UI polish. MacOS UI choice and flexibility << Linux UI choice and flexibility. (A voice of a MacOS user from 2031: "Choice?")

subsection1h 5y ago

> macOS UI > Linux UI > Windows UI By "UI", do you mean desktop environment? I'm Debian user with no desktop environment, only a window manager. Linux WMs > macOS/Windows WMs Or by "UI", do you mean GUI apps? I have fewer than 10 GUI apps installed, and I don't think GUIs matter much, especially when comparing OSes.

hk1337 5y ago
yeah, desktop environment.

jcelerier 5y ago

> macOS UI > Linux UI > Windows UI for whom ? I'm in a room with mac, windows and linux computers, going away from my linux machine is a chore and fills me with dread

yissp 5y ago

Just looking at UI, though, I think the trend actually favors Linux. GNOME and KDE have made pretty huge strides in the past few years in terms of general usability and polish. Meanwhile I feel like every Mac OS and Windows update elicits nothing but complaints.