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This is not a good look for Apple but par for the course for a ruthless company. As an aside, it’s totally different seeing “Sent from my iPhone” when it’s Ste

This is not a good look for Apple but par for the course for a ruthless company. As an aside, it’s totally different seeing “Sent from my iPhone” when it’s Steve Jobs sending it from his iPhone.

echelon 5y ago
Apple is a ruthless company. We should stop personifying them and idolizing the products they make. Look at the chess moves. They're a monster. It should terrify you that some of the best products on the market are owned by a company that wants to extract as much as it can from the rest of us. They're no different from Oracle, just with good products. It's a winning strategy, and they're now positioned to sink their claws deeper. They've decimated the competition leaving you with a device that costs too much, isn't repairable, doesn't run untaxed software, and spies on you. The next moves will lock you down even harder. Like seriously people. We're empowering "I have no mouth and want to scream". We're making it come true. An Orwellian, Stallman-killing nightmare. The anti-web. In a posh, glossy finish.
- czzr 5y ago
  Unlike Google and Facebook, say, Apple doesn’t have a strong network effect lock-in. If they stop making the best products they’re much easier to switch away from. They have some weak network effects with iMessage (in some markets) and convenience around iPhotos, but nothing serious.
  - twobitshifter 5y ago
    Socially it’s limited to iMessage and FaceTime, but I’d say the lock-in if you own a watch, MacBook, AirPods, and /or iPad is very strong. There’s no other company that offers that level of integration across your devices.
- josho 5y ago
  > Look at the chess moves. They're a monster. Brilliantly said. In the early days of MP3s I ripped all my CDs and refused to get that content locked into Microsoft's platform as I wanted control. Today I find myself so deeply tied to Apple's platform that I don't think I can get out. I think we need the government to step in and require open APIs when a company is vertically integrated to allow competition in. E.g. you built the phone and the cloud service. Fine every cloud service app on the phone has to support an API that allows me to use the phone with a different vendor's cloud service. And we have precedent for this too, e.g. at one point I could only buy a landline phone from Bell, the gov. came along and told ATT they had to allow other companies to provide landline phones that would run on Bell's network. My photos library is larger than disk space, so if I wanted to export photos out of the cloud I'd probably have to do it manually in stages. And I've lost my original MP3s somewhere along the line. Yikes.
  - hossbeast 5y ago
    I recently dug out my CDs and ripped them to my PC. Even bought some new ones, of music I can listen to anytime online with my subscription service. Aside from the nostalgia, I have appreciated the ability to listen with any program I wish, and listening while offline has happened a few times. I don't know how long I'll continue buying physical media but I'm liking it for now
  - FlagsAreFun 5y ago
    Re: Photos - if you have a Mac you can run your Photos library off an external drive. I have a 1TB NVME SSD attached via USB and it runs perfectly fine. The Photos Library is just a big folder so it is always possible to get at the raw files if you need them. Re: Music - I still have my original MP3s and AAC files from ancient versions of iTunes (originally imported via LAME) and have travelled across many Macs and even across to Windows and back. If you've lost the originals I'm not sure what Apple can do about that
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  Outside the USA , apple is not that much of a big deal. But it s interesting how disproportionately influential They became, because of their appeal to developers and technologists and their bubble
  - Macha 5y ago
    In the European country I live, anecdotally apple were in third place pre-pandemic to Samsung and Huawei for new phones. I haven't been out enough since then to confirm if it's changed, but I imagine the news about Huawei's USA struggles has dented confidence for carriers, if not consumers, as they don't seem to pushed as much anymore in marketing. The thing Apple does have, and lets them remain in first place (but not the majority like the US), is the long tail of the iPhone 6 or whatever that someone has passed down to their kid or sold second hand that's still working. You don't see the same amount of Galaxy S4s hanging around, even though when both phones were new market share was a lot more equivalent for the two. I think part of this may be a market difference here. The majority of non-tech people are on prepaid and buying a phone that's <€300 unsubsidised every 3-4 years. So they could get a second hand iPhone that's already 3-4 years old for that price, or they could get some Android mid range model new for like €200 and more people opt for the latter.
- geniium 5y ago
  Ouch, that sounds true and hurt
- mcphage 5y ago
  > We're empowering "I have no mouth and want to scream". We're making it come true. I really don’t think Siri will ever be that effective.
mikeryan 5y ago
It’s very important to note that Apple isn’t doing something special to Amazon. They’re removing an exception that Amazon enjoyed that others did not. It’s not that bad a look.
- zchrykng 5y ago
  They should have gone the other direction. There is zero good arguments for why Apple deserves 30% of gross transactions for ebooks, music, movies, etc that are merely purchased on their customer's phones.
  - doctor_eval 5y ago
    I looked into this some time ago, and 30% is roughly the same retail margin you pay when buying essentials like groceries (at least in Australia). So I honestly don’t understand the angst around this. It seems like there is this idea that the only cost associated with hosting apps on the App Store is the transaction fee, but that’s only part of it. Apple is a for-profit company, and their margin is in line with other industries. I’m not defending the shitty things they’ve done, I just don’t understand why people think 30% is excessive.
    - SilverRed 5y ago
      The difference is that retail is split over many companies and there is good competition. You also have the option to open your own store to sell your products. You don't realistically have that option for phones. It's insane to require a company to build their own phone hardware, OS, app store, and get the majority of people to switch over to it before you can sell books without paying a 3rd party for it.
    - mthoms 5y ago
      Retail typically has low single-digit profit margins and a massive inventory risk. Apple has zero risk and 80% profit margins (on the App Store anyways). Lastly, retail stores are where you typically purchase one-off items. They don’t keep charging you for that refrigerator month after month. The two business models aren’t really comparable.
draw_down 5y ago
It’s truly insane to me how often the charge of “not a good look” gets leveled at Apple’s policies. There was a piece here about the Epic/Apple thing that concluded with those exact words recently. Like, imagine saying that to any business person as a reason why they shouldn’t continue to do something that’s making them a bunch of money. You might as well invoke the boogeyman.
GeekyBear 5y ago
One of the interesting things to come out of the Fortnight trial was that Nintendo and Sony did not allow you to spend V-Bucks bought off of their platform (where they didn't take a cut), while Apple allowed it. So there are more ruthless companies out there.
- kmeisthax 5y ago
  Console manufacturers are way more ruthless than even that. Sony locked your entire Fortnite account if you logged into it on PS4; and wouldn't let you even play with Xbox players. Even now, if you sell a cross-play game on PS4, and too many people buy microtransactions on Xbox, you owe Sony money.
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
It's been amazing how fast they can burn so much goodwill. Up until recently I was on the verge of switching from Pixel to iPhone. There's no way in hell I'm switching now.
- granzymes 5y ago
  An email chain from 2010 has an impact on what phone you want to buy?
  - tick_tock_tick 5y ago
    They probably mean the last month of shitty behavior that's been getting public attention........
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > An email chain from 2010 has an impact on what phone you want to buy? Why shouldn't it? It could reveal their true colors in starker terms than one has seen before. It's one thing to know, abstractly, that they're an amoral self-serving entity. It's quite another to see it demonstrated so openly.
    - mcphage 5y ago
      Well, the commenter was saying how quickly they burned through goodwill, but it seems like it’s taken 11 years (and the death of the major author)
    - notJim 5y ago
      This seems kind of silly. Every CEO of every major company has probably sent a similar if not far, far worse email. You really think Sundar Pichai's emails are all sunshine and flowers? Capitalism rewards ruthlessness.
      - tablespoon 5y ago
        > This seems kind of silly. Every CEO of every major company has probably sent a similar if not far, far worse email. You really think Sundar Pichai's emails are all sunshine and flowers? Capitalism rewards ruthlessness. You're missing my point. I'm sure Sundar Pichai has sent similar emails, but that fact is abstract and therefore remote. Jobs/Schiller sent these emails, but that fact isn't abstract, it's right here in our faces.

echelon 5y ago

Apple is a ruthless company. We should stop personifying them and idolizing the products they make. Look at the chess moves. They're a monster. It should terrify you that some of the best products on the market are owned by a company that wants to extract as much as it can from the rest of us. They're no different from Oracle, just with good products. It's a winning strategy, and they're now positioned to sink their claws deeper. They've decimated the competition leaving you with a device that costs too much, isn't repairable, doesn't run untaxed software, and spies on you. The next moves will lock you down even harder. Like seriously people. We're empowering "I have no mouth and want to scream". We're making it come true. An Orwellian, Stallman-killing nightmare. The anti-web. In a posh, glossy finish.

czzr 5y ago
Unlike Google and Facebook, say, Apple doesn’t have a strong network effect lock-in. If they stop making the best products they’re much easier to switch away from. They have some weak network effects with iMessage (in some markets) and convenience around iPhotos, but nothing serious.
- twobitshifter 5y ago
  Socially it’s limited to iMessage and FaceTime, but I’d say the lock-in if you own a watch, MacBook, AirPods, and /or iPad is very strong. There’s no other company that offers that level of integration across your devices.
josho 5y ago
> Look at the chess moves. They're a monster. Brilliantly said. In the early days of MP3s I ripped all my CDs and refused to get that content locked into Microsoft's platform as I wanted control. Today I find myself so deeply tied to Apple's platform that I don't think I can get out. I think we need the government to step in and require open APIs when a company is vertically integrated to allow competition in. E.g. you built the phone and the cloud service. Fine every cloud service app on the phone has to support an API that allows me to use the phone with a different vendor's cloud service. And we have precedent for this too, e.g. at one point I could only buy a landline phone from Bell, the gov. came along and told ATT they had to allow other companies to provide landline phones that would run on Bell's network. My photos library is larger than disk space, so if I wanted to export photos out of the cloud I'd probably have to do it manually in stages. And I've lost my original MP3s somewhere along the line. Yikes.
- hossbeast 5y ago
  I recently dug out my CDs and ripped them to my PC. Even bought some new ones, of music I can listen to anytime online with my subscription service. Aside from the nostalgia, I have appreciated the ability to listen with any program I wish, and listening while offline has happened a few times. I don't know how long I'll continue buying physical media but I'm liking it for now
- FlagsAreFun 5y ago
  Re: Photos - if you have a Mac you can run your Photos library off an external drive. I have a 1TB NVME SSD attached via USB and it runs perfectly fine. The Photos Library is just a big folder so it is always possible to get at the raw files if you need them. Re: Music - I still have my original MP3s and AAC files from ancient versions of iTunes (originally imported via LAME) and have travelled across many Macs and even across to Windows and back. If you've lost the originals I'm not sure what Apple can do about that
cblconfederate 5y ago
Outside the USA , apple is not that much of a big deal. But it s interesting how disproportionately influential They became, because of their appeal to developers and technologists and their bubble
- Macha 5y ago
  In the European country I live, anecdotally apple were in third place pre-pandemic to Samsung and Huawei for new phones. I haven't been out enough since then to confirm if it's changed, but I imagine the news about Huawei's USA struggles has dented confidence for carriers, if not consumers, as they don't seem to pushed as much anymore in marketing. The thing Apple does have, and lets them remain in first place (but not the majority like the US), is the long tail of the iPhone 6 or whatever that someone has passed down to their kid or sold second hand that's still working. You don't see the same amount of Galaxy S4s hanging around, even though when both phones were new market share was a lot more equivalent for the two. I think part of this may be a market difference here. The majority of non-tech people are on prepaid and buying a phone that's <€300 unsubsidised every 3-4 years. So they could get a second hand iPhone that's already 3-4 years old for that price, or they could get some Android mid range model new for like €200 and more people opt for the latter.
geniium 5y ago
Ouch, that sounds true and hurt
mcphage 5y ago
> We're empowering "I have no mouth and want to scream". We're making it come true. I really don’t think Siri will ever be that effective.

mikeryan 5y ago

It’s very important to note that Apple isn’t doing something special to Amazon. They’re removing an exception that Amazon enjoyed that others did not. It’s not that bad a look.

zchrykng 5y ago
They should have gone the other direction. There is zero good arguments for why Apple deserves 30% of gross transactions for ebooks, music, movies, etc that are merely purchased on their customer's phones.
- doctor_eval 5y ago
  I looked into this some time ago, and 30% is roughly the same retail margin you pay when buying essentials like groceries (at least in Australia). So I honestly don’t understand the angst around this. It seems like there is this idea that the only cost associated with hosting apps on the App Store is the transaction fee, but that’s only part of it. Apple is a for-profit company, and their margin is in line with other industries. I’m not defending the shitty things they’ve done, I just don’t understand why people think 30% is excessive.
  - SilverRed 5y ago
    The difference is that retail is split over many companies and there is good competition. You also have the option to open your own store to sell your products. You don't realistically have that option for phones. It's insane to require a company to build their own phone hardware, OS, app store, and get the majority of people to switch over to it before you can sell books without paying a 3rd party for it.
  - mthoms 5y ago
    Retail typically has low single-digit profit margins and a massive inventory risk. Apple has zero risk and 80% profit margins (on the App Store anyways). Lastly, retail stores are where you typically purchase one-off items. They don’t keep charging you for that refrigerator month after month. The two business models aren’t really comparable.

draw_down 5y ago

It’s truly insane to me how often the charge of “not a good look” gets leveled at Apple’s policies. There was a piece here about the Epic/Apple thing that concluded with those exact words recently. Like, imagine saying that to any business person as a reason why they shouldn’t continue to do something that’s making them a bunch of money. You might as well invoke the boogeyman.

GeekyBear 5y ago

One of the interesting things to come out of the Fortnight trial was that Nintendo and Sony did not allow you to spend V-Bucks bought off of their platform (where they didn't take a cut), while Apple allowed it. So there are more ruthless companies out there.

kmeisthax 5y ago
Console manufacturers are way more ruthless than even that. Sony locked your entire Fortnite account if you logged into it on PS4; and wouldn't let you even play with Xbox players. Even now, if you sell a cross-play game on PS4, and too many people buy microtransactions on Xbox, you owe Sony money.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

It's been amazing how fast they can burn so much goodwill. Up until recently I was on the verge of switching from Pixel to iPhone. There's no way in hell I'm switching now.

granzymes 5y ago
An email chain from 2010 has an impact on what phone you want to buy?
- tick_tock_tick 5y ago
  They probably mean the last month of shitty behavior that's been getting public attention........
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > An email chain from 2010 has an impact on what phone you want to buy? Why shouldn't it? It could reveal their true colors in starker terms than one has seen before. It's one thing to know, abstractly, that they're an amoral self-serving entity. It's quite another to see it demonstrated so openly.
  - mcphage 5y ago
    Well, the commenter was saying how quickly they burned through goodwill, but it seems like it’s taken 11 years (and the death of the major author)
  - notJim 5y ago
    This seems kind of silly. Every CEO of every major company has probably sent a similar if not far, far worse email. You really think Sundar Pichai's emails are all sunshine and flowers? Capitalism rewards ruthlessness.
    - tablespoon 5y ago
      > This seems kind of silly. Every CEO of every major company has probably sent a similar if not far, far worse email. You really think Sundar Pichai's emails are all sunshine and flowers? Capitalism rewards ruthlessness. You're missing my point. I'm sure Sundar Pichai has sent similar emails, but that fact is abstract and therefore remote. Jobs/Schiller sent these emails, but that fact isn't abstract, it's right here in our faces.