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There's always trust involved. You have to trust the DNS infrastructure, you have to trust your ISP, you have to trust the VPN provider. You don't have to tru
by kbenson 5y ago
There's always trust involved. You have to trust the DNS infrastructure, you have to trust your ISP, you have to trust the VPN provider. You don't have to trust them completely, but you have to trust them at least somewhat.
We take steps to reduce the amount of trust required, such as splitting that trust across many parties, so any one party hopefully can't betray us enough that it matters or that we don't notice, but there's still a lot of trust. For example, we use SSL certificates and certificate authorities that are known ahead of time to protect from problems on the network, but that requires you trust your OS and/or your browser, which is generally how you receive those certificate authorities. If I'm able to get my own CA on your system and trusted, and I can see your traffic, it doesn't matter whether you're using HTTPS connections.
A VPN provider might say they're not keeping logs, or that their servers are not beholden to a third party and traffic is not being analyzed, but ultimately all you have is their word on that. Ultimately, the only thing different between you connecting to the NSA and routing all your traffic (even if your traffic is mostly encrypted) through them so they can look at it and a VPN provider is that you trust the VPN provider when they say they aren't the NSA and they aren't looking at your traffic.
- aborsy 5y agoIt’s worth mentioning that, if you listen to the podcast mentioned in this thread, DarkMatter, the hacking company, at some point ran a certificate authority that was recognized by browsers including Chrome and Firefox, until lately that news about them came out. I wouldn’t blindly trust CAs either.
- kbenson 5y agoOh, I don't, it's just also really hard to vet that stuff adequately as a single person, and also why HTTPS isn't always adequate. There's DNS and root servers to consider as well (but that might be harder to hide with all the caching going on). I almost edited my above comment a few minutes afterwards to append something like "and honestly, it would be pretty hard to convince me the NSA or some other group hasn't run one or more VPN providers in the past. The only question in my eye is whether it was a popular one or not."