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Fukushima Radiation Breaks the Scale — No Idea by How Much.. Can’t Measure It

24 points by megaman821 15y ago

sorbus 15y ago
Here's what appears to be the original press release that this article (and related ones) are getting this from: http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11080201-e.html http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11080201-e.... "At 2:30 pm on August 1, as radiation level of surface of connection of emergency gas treatment system piping arrangement at the bottom of main exhaust stuck of unit 1 and 2 was detected over 10 Sv/h, keep the area out for restricted area with signature. We will consider countermeasure such as shilding."
- serichsen 15y ago
  Note that it does not mention anything like "too high for measurement".
  - glimcat 15y ago
    It is almost always the case that "too high for measurement" means "the guy with the meter is telling you a fish story" or "the guy with the meter doesn't know which end to hold."
pbreit 15y ago
It's now been 5 months of dire predictions and yet it apparently remains somewhat under control? Are there any decent summaries of that the genuine situation and implications? This article just sounds like more of the questionable-source, hysterical variety.
- jameskilton 15y ago
  There's no proof that anything is "under control" really. There's a 30km exclusion zone so there's not too much risk of radiation floating into populated areas (that we know of). so as I see it it's a matter of what information we're getting from TEPCO, which isn't a lot. There won't be any more explosions to send material into the air, and that's all we know.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    If there won't be more radiation getting into populated areas and there won't be any more explosions... then that pretty much sounds like you're saying it is under control. The 30km exclusion zone might not be a control that we are happy with for the long term, but it is a control.
    - davidryal 15y ago
      an exclusion zone is not a control; it's an acknowledgement of lack of control.
      - burgerbrain 15y ago
        Well it certainly seems to have put the situation under control...
        davidryal 15y ago
        if by that you mean it has partially (and to what extent is unknown) isolated the thing we can't control at all and will be cleaning up for 30+ years (stated by nuclear expert in video fta), then yeah it's all fine. unless you can prove that all ill effects are contained within that exclusion zone, it's not control, it's the illusion of control to make yourself feel better. so if they're finding radiation in rice crops hundreds of km away, is that still control?
        burgerbrain 15y ago
        As I said, we may not be satisfied with the control, but isolation is in fact a type of control.
- Duff 15y ago
  Welcome to the HN reality distortion field... "It is bizarre that people are upset about this. After all, nobody has ever died as a result of a nuclear accident, right?"
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    How many people have died of this one? Downvotes, huh. I guess I'm not supposed to ask that question for some reason.
    - Duff 15y ago
      It's safe to say the many of the workers who tried to stabilize the reactors will meet early ends due to cancer, etc. Beyond that, we'll learn that from public health statistics.
  - davidryal 15y ago
    i'm pretty amazed at the handwashing here. not absolutely sure there's anything to see here, so move along and don't linger...
saulrh 15y ago
Just to make this clear - there is no such thing as "too high for a geiger counter to read". There is "too high for the geiger counter in my hand to read", just as with any other instrument, but all they have to do to get a better reading is find a less sensitive counter or one with a smaller aperture. I suspect that TEPCO has already done so and that they're just rounding things off for the press.
- glimcat 15y ago
  But then they couldn't go fearmongering to get more ad impressions!
VMG 15y ago
In comparison: the Chernobyl output was at 300 Sieverts near the reactor core shortly after the explosion. Edit: forgot the source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster
- serichsen 15y ago
  Output _where_? The measurement reported is on the second floor inside the reactor building.
ChuckMcM 15y ago
Sigh. I'm a fairly pro-nuclear guy and the situation at Fukushima has, apparently has actually been the worst possible disaster it can have. The latest measurements from insider the reactors indicates that core material is exposed outside the pressure vessel. The basis for that is several sieverts of radiation they are measuring in those areas. And those levels would not be produced by byproducts in water sadly. So on the one hand we can be impressed that only the oldest two reactors in Japan, sitting at the epicenter of the biggest natural disaster Japan has ever experienced has had this failure. Other newer reactors on the same site were successfully shut down and made safe. But the 1 & 2 reactors have it would seem failed completely. Right out past the limits of their safety system. (if the reactor vessel ruptured, and it seems like it has) That makes cleanup that much harder, it makes the likely hood that the site of those reactors being re-used is zero. And it means that TEPCO is going to probably go bankrupt based on the costs. What it doesn't mean is that the folks in Fukushima are in any more danger now then they were 5 months ago. It doesn't mean that the radiation will 'escape' and kill people, or even that anyone will die. It doesn't mean that the surrounding area is in danger of more contamination. I was more interested in the way folks were measuring radioactive fallout on a much finer scale using 'home made' measurement devices. This crowd sourced contamination map can help track down where contaminants have been concentrated in the surrounding area and become a problem. That is, in my opinion, the more impactful problem to address. Decontaminate the area around the plants and let the engineers work on their plans for dismantling what is left of reactors 1 & 2.
- saulrh 15y ago
  Agreed. This whole mess has been nothing but a demonstration of how awesome our technology is; homemade fallout counters are just one manifestation. For me, the very most important statistic is simple: zero deaths from radiation.
  - davidryal 15y ago
    how do you know that's true?
    - 15y ago
techverde 15y ago
Remember when the government telling us that radiation levels were safe and nothing bad would happen?

24 points by megaman821 15y ago

Here's what appears to be the original press release that this article (and related ones) are getting this from: http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11080201-e.html http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11080201-e.... "At 2:30 pm on August 1, as radiation level of surface of connection of emergency gas treatment system piping arrangement at the bottom of main exhaust stuck of unit 1 and 2 was detected over 10 Sv/h, keep the area out for restricted area with signature. We will consider countermeasure such as shilding."

serichsen 15y ago
Note that it does not mention anything like "too high for measurement".
- glimcat 15y ago
  It is almost always the case that "too high for measurement" means "the guy with the meter is telling you a fish story" or "the guy with the meter doesn't know which end to hold."

pbreit 15y ago

It's now been 5 months of dire predictions and yet it apparently remains somewhat under control? Are there any decent summaries of that the genuine situation and implications? This article just sounds like more of the questionable-source, hysterical variety.

jameskilton 15y ago
There's no proof that anything is "under control" really. There's a 30km exclusion zone so there's not too much risk of radiation floating into populated areas (that we know of). so as I see it it's a matter of what information we're getting from TEPCO, which isn't a lot. There won't be any more explosions to send material into the air, and that's all we know.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  If there won't be more radiation getting into populated areas and there won't be any more explosions... then that pretty much sounds like you're saying it is under control. The 30km exclusion zone might not be a control that we are happy with for the long term, but it is a control.
  - davidryal 15y ago
    an exclusion zone is not a control; it's an acknowledgement of lack of control.
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      Well it certainly seems to have put the situation under control...
      - davidryal 15y ago
        if by that you mean it has partially (and to what extent is unknown) isolated the thing we can't control at all and will be cleaning up for 30+ years (stated by nuclear expert in video fta), then yeah it's all fine. unless you can prove that all ill effects are contained within that exclusion zone, it's not control, it's the illusion of control to make yourself feel better. so if they're finding radiation in rice crops hundreds of km away, is that still control?
        burgerbrain 15y ago
        As I said, we may not be satisfied with the control, but isolation is in fact a type of control.
Duff 15y ago
Welcome to the HN reality distortion field... "It is bizarre that people are upset about this. After all, nobody has ever died as a result of a nuclear accident, right?"
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  How many people have died of this one? Downvotes, huh. I guess I'm not supposed to ask that question for some reason.
  - Duff 15y ago
    It's safe to say the many of the workers who tried to stabilize the reactors will meet early ends due to cancer, etc. Beyond that, we'll learn that from public health statistics.
- davidryal 15y ago
  i'm pretty amazed at the handwashing here. not absolutely sure there's anything to see here, so move along and don't linger...

saulrh 15y ago

Just to make this clear - there is no such thing as "too high for a geiger counter to read". There is "too high for the geiger counter in my hand to read", just as with any other instrument, but all they have to do to get a better reading is find a less sensitive counter or one with a smaller aperture. I suspect that TEPCO has already done so and that they're just rounding things off for the press.

glimcat 15y ago
But then they couldn't go fearmongering to get more ad impressions!

VMG 15y ago

In comparison: the Chernobyl output was at 300 Sieverts near the reactor core shortly after the explosion. Edit: forgot the source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

serichsen 15y ago
Output _where_? The measurement reported is on the second floor inside the reactor building.

ChuckMcM 15y ago

Sigh. I'm a fairly pro-nuclear guy and the situation at Fukushima has, apparently has actually been the worst possible disaster it can have. The latest measurements from insider the reactors indicates that core material is exposed outside the pressure vessel. The basis for that is several sieverts of radiation they are measuring in those areas. And those levels would not be produced by byproducts in water sadly. So on the one hand we can be impressed that only the oldest two reactors in Japan, sitting at the epicenter of the biggest natural disaster Japan has ever experienced has had this failure. Other newer reactors on the same site were successfully shut down and made safe. But the 1 & 2 reactors have it would seem failed completely. Right out past the limits of their safety system. (if the reactor vessel ruptured, and it seems like it has) That makes cleanup that much harder, it makes the likely hood that the site of those reactors being re-used is zero. And it means that TEPCO is going to probably go bankrupt based on the costs. What it doesn't mean is that the folks in Fukushima are in any more danger now then they were 5 months ago. It doesn't mean that the radiation will 'escape' and kill people, or even that anyone will die. It doesn't mean that the surrounding area is in danger of more contamination. I was more interested in the way folks were measuring radioactive fallout on a much finer scale using 'home made' measurement devices. This crowd sourced contamination map can help track down where contaminants have been concentrated in the surrounding area and become a problem. That is, in my opinion, the more impactful problem to address. Decontaminate the area around the plants and let the engineers work on their plans for dismantling what is left of reactors 1 & 2.

saulrh 15y ago
Agreed. This whole mess has been nothing but a demonstration of how awesome our technology is; homemade fallout counters are just one manifestation. For me, the very most important statistic is simple: zero deaths from radiation.
- davidryal 15y ago
  how do you know that's true?
  - 15y ago

techverde 15y ago

Remember when the government telling us that radiation levels were safe and nothing bad would happen?