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I think this sums up whats wrong with pay transparency perfectly. You feel cheated because a company didn't pay you the same as another employee. But your valu

I think this sums up whats wrong with pay transparency perfectly. You feel cheated because a company didn't pay you the same as another employee. But your value should not be measured by how much somebody else is getting paid, but by how much another company is willing to pay you.

KittenInABox 5y ago
Your value to the company is also constrained if the company pretend they can't afford your real worth, while they pay that worth to comparable employees. You don't know the worth you should be demanding because there's no transparency. The person was being cheated by their employer here.
- jay_kyburz 5y ago
  That's the point, you never have any grounds to demand more unless you have another job offer on the table. When companies say they can't afford to pay you x, they mean they don't want to pay you x. Yes, sure, perhaps the employee was being cheated, but pay transparency is not going to fix that, that just insures everybody is being cheated evenly. The cheating happens when the profits of the company are not distributed to the people that run it, but to the people who own it.
pessimizer 5y ago
> But your value should not be measured by how much somebody else is getting paid, but by how much another company is willing to pay you. Who are you to say that? Is the invisible hand prescriptive now? What if I value fair treatment over marginal nominal compensation? What if I don't know how much to ask for when I'm looking for work because I'm so underpaid that my perception of the market is fucked?
- jay_kyburz 5y ago
  Same way you work out how much your house is worth, you get two or more companies in a bidding war for your time.
- ativzzz 5y ago
  What is "fair" treatment? Are different levels of negotiating abilities unfair?
hpcjoe 5y ago
The initial value could be measured this way. Market price discovery. Without external influences (collusion, etc.) the market will generally define price bands. The stock market is an example of this (to a degree). The job market is also an example of this. Over time, employees show their value or not. The higher value employees should be appropriately compensated for what they deliver, e.g. more market price discovery, but for rarer assets. The danger of transparency is that you will discover the presumed market value difference, without seeing reasoning behind those differences. Which, honestly, will result in many angry people.

KittenInABox 5y ago

Your value to the company is also constrained if the company pretend they can't afford your real worth, while they pay that worth to comparable employees. You don't know the worth you should be demanding because there's no transparency. The person was being cheated by their employer here.

jay_kyburz 5y ago
That's the point, you never have any grounds to demand more unless you have another job offer on the table. When companies say they can't afford to pay you x, they mean they don't want to pay you x. Yes, sure, perhaps the employee was being cheated, but pay transparency is not going to fix that, that just insures everybody is being cheated evenly. The cheating happens when the profits of the company are not distributed to the people that run it, but to the people who own it.

pessimizer 5y ago

> But your value should not be measured by how much somebody else is getting paid, but by how much another company is willing to pay you. Who are you to say that? Is the invisible hand prescriptive now? What if I value fair treatment over marginal nominal compensation? What if I don't know how much to ask for when I'm looking for work because I'm so underpaid that my perception of the market is fucked?

jay_kyburz 5y ago
Same way you work out how much your house is worth, you get two or more companies in a bidding war for your time.
ativzzz 5y ago
What is "fair" treatment? Are different levels of negotiating abilities unfair?

hpcjoe 5y ago

The initial value could be measured this way. Market price discovery. Without external influences (collusion, etc.) the market will generally define price bands. The stock market is an example of this (to a degree). The job market is also an example of this. Over time, employees show their value or not. The higher value employees should be appropriately compensated for what they deliver, e.g. more market price discovery, but for rarer assets. The danger of transparency is that you will discover the presumed market value difference, without seeing reasoning behind those differences. Which, honestly, will result in many angry people.