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> universities can't keep charing exorbitant fees to give out a piece of irrelevant paper You've completely misunderstood the point of university and the piece

> universities can't keep charing exorbitant fees to give out a piece of irrelevant paper You've completely misunderstood the point of university and the piece of paper. The reasons to go to University ranked: 1. To signal to employers that you are the type of person who can solve difficult challenges with minimal oversight 2. To build your network 3. To learn 4. Social events The piece of paper is far from irrelevant, it's your signal to employers that you're a successful person. MOOCs and bootcamps can't replace that. Employers don't like apprenticeships because once they're over the employees leave for greener pastures. Even if they confirm you're self trained via leetcode or whatever they still can't be sure that you're able to do the other stuff that a job entails.

gjhh244 5y ago
The problem is that there are a lot more "successful people" with a degree nowadays, but not that much more demand. Thus the value of nearly all degrees is lower now than decades ago. Only ones with difficult entry (like medicine) really hold their value. Even CS degree is fairly useless without hobby projects or working experience. Many university programs exist simply to make money, or in European publicly funded institutions because of arbitrary government targets for raising education level in general population. Nothing to do with actual demand or applicable skills in workforce.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  > Many university programs exist simply to make money Absolutely agree, but that doesn't change the fact that employers demand diplomas. It's exceedingly difficult to break into a white collar industry without one. Employers largely don't care about what universities teach, or why they exist, they just want to be sure that the candidate has experience overcoming adversity.
rizzaxc 5y ago
> You've completely misunderstood the point of university and the piece of paper no I didn't. I have a degree and a nice job; my point was more and more will reject university because that'd do nothing for them - they wouldn't get hired just because they've done their degree, or they can't bear the cost. universities do provide a good environment as you (and me) pointed out, but I don't think that is acceptable for most people with the price tag currently going in the US
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  > universities havve to be very very cheap to be worth it, since most of bachelor level knowledge is now free on the internet Gaining knowledge is not the point of going to university. Getting the diploma is. Sure, having the diploma doesn't automatically mean you'll get a job, but not having a diploma does pretty much mean you'll automatically not get certain jobs.

gjhh244 5y ago

The problem is that there are a lot more "successful people" with a degree nowadays, but not that much more demand. Thus the value of nearly all degrees is lower now than decades ago. Only ones with difficult entry (like medicine) really hold their value. Even CS degree is fairly useless without hobby projects or working experience. Many university programs exist simply to make money, or in European publicly funded institutions because of arbitrary government targets for raising education level in general population. Nothing to do with actual demand or applicable skills in workforce.

colinmhayes 5y ago
> Many university programs exist simply to make money Absolutely agree, but that doesn't change the fact that employers demand diplomas. It's exceedingly difficult to break into a white collar industry without one. Employers largely don't care about what universities teach, or why they exist, they just want to be sure that the candidate has experience overcoming adversity.

rizzaxc 5y ago

> You've completely misunderstood the point of university and the piece of paper no I didn't. I have a degree and a nice job; my point was more and more will reject university because that'd do nothing for them - they wouldn't get hired just because they've done their degree, or they can't bear the cost. universities do provide a good environment as you (and me) pointed out, but I don't think that is acceptable for most people with the price tag currently going in the US

colinmhayes 5y ago
> universities havve to be very very cheap to be worth it, since most of bachelor level knowledge is now free on the internet Gaining knowledge is not the point of going to university. Getting the diploma is. Sure, having the diploma doesn't automatically mean you'll get a job, but not having a diploma does pretty much mean you'll automatically not get certain jobs.