6 ms·

>Through its Vision Concept, the company wants to make tires that are airless, rechargeable, connected, and sustainable. 1) airless, check. 2) rechargeable ??

by jaclaz 5y ago

>Through its Vision Concept, the company wants to make tires that are airless, rechargeable, connected, and sustainable. 1) airless, check. 2) rechargeable ?? 3) connected ?? 4) sustainable ??

mrpopo 5y ago
The embedded video seems to show that you can 3d-print on top of an existing tire, which would let you "recharge" for a certain number of km. It's also more sustainable that way.
- jaclaz 5y ago
  Hmmm, I doubt about the actual duration of something just 3D printed over, in the sense of adhesion, I remember the process to join (rubber based) watertight expansion joints and it involved (after preparation of surfaces and application of adhesive) some half hour pressed into a heated aluminium cast. (and the procedure is similar AFAIK for retreading tyres currently in use) On the other hand, they were common in Italy in the '70's and '80's, there were truck tyres that instead of being re-treaded with the "hot" process above were thinned and grooved on a sort of lathe and then a monolithic external "ring" that included the tread on the outside and matching grooves inside was applied, when the tyre was inflated the grooves and the pression made the two stay together (until the tyre was punctured, it was not so rare that you could find on roads these outer rings lost by some truck that had a flat wheel).
mc32 5y ago
Buzzword stuffing. With regard to sustainable, well, I guess they could return to the jungles of Malaysia and Brazil for caoutchouc…
dotancohen 5y ago
Rechargeable: Adding tread. Connected: Reports tread status and configuration, e.g. to inform the driver that he should change to a winter tire tread. Sustainable: Recycled and recyclable.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  >Connected: Reports tread status and configuration, e.g. to inform the driver that he should change to a winter tire tread. That sounds like everything that's terrible about printer ink but with the decimal moved once to the right. I can imagine a world where your tires stop working because you had them re-treaded with a tread pattern or the OEM won't honor a warranty item because you didn't use an approved brand of retread.
  - treeman79 5y ago
    Truck tires are retreaded all the time. It’s why you see bits of tread on the highway. They do fall off now and then. Apparently saves a lot of money.
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      Tires where purchasing decisions are driven almost exclusively by cost per time or distance are routinely retreaded. But that does not describe the passenger car tire market.
      - linsomniac 5y ago
        Doesn't it? I mean, I get that some people want to try a different make/model of tire when replacing it for performance/noise/appearance, I've been one of those people at times. But I also think there are plenty of people who get the tire that's available to them and reducing the cost per year of use would be welcome. I will say that having an EV, the cost of tires really stands out. In 60K miles the only maintenance expenses I've had have been tires and a windshield. Even the ongoing cost of charging is basically invisible (plug in at home, free on the road), so tires have been about half the money I've put into it, it feels like.
        throwawayboise 5y ago
        I remember retreads being a thing you could buy for your car in the 1970s/80s. I remember local radio ads from retread shops. I haven't heard of passenger car retreads in decades though, so I don't think it's really done anymore.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
>rechargeable >sustainable "retreadable" but the marketing department didn't think that had sufficient appeal for the demographics the press release was targeted it.
- jagger27 5y ago
  It's common for aircraft and other heavy duty equipment's tires to be retreaded. Seems like a reasonable thing to do on passenger vehicles if it can be scaled.
  - mikestew 5y ago
    It used to be done for passenger car tires. A quick search says one can still find recapped tires if determined. But why isn't it more common, when it was common about 40-50 years ago? Well, that time began to approach the time I spent as a mechanic, and the reason was cheap, imported tires that were starting to come out of Asian factories. I can sell you a retread, or you can have a brand new tire from some off-brand for about the same money, and guess which was chosen more often? This link seems to line up with what I remember from 40 years ago: https://www.treadwright.com/blogs/treadwright-blog/are-retread-tires-illegal https://www.treadwright.com/blogs/treadwright-blog/are-retre... If the Michelin's are built with retreading in mind, should work fine. After all, it always did before. :-)
  - hermitdev 5y ago
    It's also common for semis to shed retreads at highway speeds. Having hit one on the highway, no thanks. We don't need more highway missiles and debris, which is precisely what would happen if retreads were common on passenger vehicles.
    - Alupis 5y ago
      This was the number one problem with retreads for the trucking industry, and most mechanics viewed retreads as cheap (the bad kind of cheap), low quality ways to keep trucks rolling, preferring new wherever possible. Perhaps the tech has matured some, but I doubt it. You're still attempting to bond two different soft materials.
OneEyedRobot 5y ago
5) diverse ...and then you've got something. I'm actually surprised that I've never seen a tire with some kind of closed-cell super lightweight foam, some kind of aerogel maybe. I suppose the problem in that case is that you can't spread heat throughout the whole interior. Which makes me wonder, how do they radiate heat on this Michelin? Does it stick around the outer surface and that's it? Do the 'spokes' bear it away somehow?
- dntrkv 5y ago
  In the off-road motorcycle industry there are these tubes called mousse bibs. I run them on all my bikes. They do replace the inner tubes, not the tires themselves. But they work great and are the best anti-flat solution out there. They sound similar to what you’re talking about. Michelin makes them too. https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/michelin-bib-mousse-tires https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/michelin-bib-mousse-tire...
  - illegalsmile 5y ago
    I have something similar for my mountain bike, CushCore. They don't replace inner tubes (tubeless setup) but they do add a lot of protection, dampening and deflection.
  - robocat 5y ago
    The name “Bib mousse” was created by Michelin - Bib is short for Bibendum, which is the name of the Michelin man, and mousse is French for foam.
asciimike 5y ago
Re 3: Michelin has a "track connect" for their track tires ( https://www.michelinman.com/auto/why-michelin/technological-innovations/trackconnect https://www.michelinman.com/auto/why-michelin/technological-...) I haven't used it, and most serious track rats have a separate data system so the track connect features are potentially redundant, but I assume that it's an MVP of what a consumer product might look like in the future.
fred_is_fred 5y ago
#3 you'll end up paying $200/tire plus a monthly fee to use them. Upgrade to premium and get unlimited mileage plus insights on how you can be a better driver!
- leetcrew 5y ago
  more like insights for your insurer on how much to jack up your premiums.
- jrockway 5y ago
  I guess as part of this subscription plan they'll call you forty five times a day trying to get you to upgrade the warranty on the tires. At least there are a lot of qualified contractors they can outsource that to!
noipv4 5y ago
1) airless?? there's air within the wheel spokes pressurized to 1 atm
adrianmonk 5y ago
Official info on those 4 points: https://www.michelin.com/en/innovation/vision-concept/ https://www.michelin.com/en/innovation/vision-concept/ It is a company vision, not a product announcement, so as expected much of it is fuzzy and hypothetical, and it may or may not apply to this particular product. But this part offers a clearer idea of what rechargeable means: > The tread can be “recharged” using a 3D printer, which means that VISION can be adapted to motorists’ changing needs, for maximum comfort, safety and sustainability. They also have an official page for this actual product line, which is called Uptis (Unique Puncture-Proof Tire System): https://michelinmedia.com/michelin-uptis/ https://michelinmedia.com/michelin-uptis/ The FAQ on this latter page says stuff relevant to sustainability: > Today’s level of rolling resistance is about the same as a zero-pressure (“run flat”) tire ... > Uptis will have the same mileage of a standard tire. I believe this is an important part of sustainability because if mileage were worse, you'd gain in one area (reduced waste) and lose in another (increased energy usage). So if mileage really is the same, that's a good thing.

by jaclaz 5y ago

>Through its Vision Concept, the company wants to make tires that are airless, rechargeable, connected, and sustainable. 1) airless, check. 2) rechargeable ?? 3) connected ?? 4) sustainable ??

mrpopo 5y ago

The embedded video seems to show that you can 3d-print on top of an existing tire, which would let you "recharge" for a certain number of km. It's also more sustainable that way.

jaclaz 5y ago
Hmmm, I doubt about the actual duration of something just 3D printed over, in the sense of adhesion, I remember the process to join (rubber based) watertight expansion joints and it involved (after preparation of surfaces and application of adhesive) some half hour pressed into a heated aluminium cast. (and the procedure is similar AFAIK for retreading tyres currently in use) On the other hand, they were common in Italy in the '70's and '80's, there were truck tyres that instead of being re-treaded with the "hot" process above were thinned and grooved on a sort of lathe and then a monolithic external "ring" that included the tread on the outside and matching grooves inside was applied, when the tyre was inflated the grooves and the pression made the two stay together (until the tyre was punctured, it was not so rare that you could find on roads these outer rings lost by some truck that had a flat wheel).

mc32 5y ago

Buzzword stuffing. With regard to sustainable, well, I guess they could return to the jungles of Malaysia and Brazil for caoutchouc…

dotancohen 5y ago

Rechargeable: Adding tread. Connected: Reports tread status and configuration, e.g. to inform the driver that he should change to a winter tire tread. Sustainable: Recycled and recyclable.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
>Connected: Reports tread status and configuration, e.g. to inform the driver that he should change to a winter tire tread. That sounds like everything that's terrible about printer ink but with the decimal moved once to the right. I can imagine a world where your tires stop working because you had them re-treaded with a tread pattern or the OEM won't honor a warranty item because you didn't use an approved brand of retread.
- treeman79 5y ago
  Truck tires are retreaded all the time. It’s why you see bits of tread on the highway. They do fall off now and then. Apparently saves a lot of money.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Tires where purchasing decisions are driven almost exclusively by cost per time or distance are routinely retreaded. But that does not describe the passenger car tire market.
    - linsomniac 5y ago
      Doesn't it? I mean, I get that some people want to try a different make/model of tire when replacing it for performance/noise/appearance, I've been one of those people at times. But I also think there are plenty of people who get the tire that's available to them and reducing the cost per year of use would be welcome. I will say that having an EV, the cost of tires really stands out. In 60K miles the only maintenance expenses I've had have been tires and a windshield. Even the ongoing cost of charging is basically invisible (plug in at home, free on the road), so tires have been about half the money I've put into it, it feels like.
      - throwawayboise 5y ago
        I remember retreads being a thing you could buy for your car in the 1970s/80s. I remember local radio ads from retread shops. I haven't heard of passenger car retreads in decades though, so I don't think it's really done anymore.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

>rechargeable >sustainable "retreadable" but the marketing department didn't think that had sufficient appeal for the demographics the press release was targeted it.

jagger27 5y ago
It's common for aircraft and other heavy duty equipment's tires to be retreaded. Seems like a reasonable thing to do on passenger vehicles if it can be scaled.
- mikestew 5y ago
  It used to be done for passenger car tires. A quick search says one can still find recapped tires if determined. But why isn't it more common, when it was common about 40-50 years ago? Well, that time began to approach the time I spent as a mechanic, and the reason was cheap, imported tires that were starting to come out of Asian factories. I can sell you a retread, or you can have a brand new tire from some off-brand for about the same money, and guess which was chosen more often? This link seems to line up with what I remember from 40 years ago: https://www.treadwright.com/blogs/treadwright-blog/are-retread-tires-illegal https://www.treadwright.com/blogs/treadwright-blog/are-retre... If the Michelin's are built with retreading in mind, should work fine. After all, it always did before. :-)
- hermitdev 5y ago
  It's also common for semis to shed retreads at highway speeds. Having hit one on the highway, no thanks. We don't need more highway missiles and debris, which is precisely what would happen if retreads were common on passenger vehicles.
  - Alupis 5y ago
    This was the number one problem with retreads for the trucking industry, and most mechanics viewed retreads as cheap (the bad kind of cheap), low quality ways to keep trucks rolling, preferring new wherever possible. Perhaps the tech has matured some, but I doubt it. You're still attempting to bond two different soft materials.

OneEyedRobot 5y ago

5) diverse ...and then you've got something. I'm actually surprised that I've never seen a tire with some kind of closed-cell super lightweight foam, some kind of aerogel maybe. I suppose the problem in that case is that you can't spread heat throughout the whole interior. Which makes me wonder, how do they radiate heat on this Michelin? Does it stick around the outer surface and that's it? Do the 'spokes' bear it away somehow?

dntrkv 5y ago
In the off-road motorcycle industry there are these tubes called mousse bibs. I run them on all my bikes. They do replace the inner tubes, not the tires themselves. But they work great and are the best anti-flat solution out there. They sound similar to what you’re talking about. Michelin makes them too. https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/michelin-bib-mousse-tires https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/michelin-bib-mousse-tire...
- illegalsmile 5y ago
  I have something similar for my mountain bike, CushCore. They don't replace inner tubes (tubeless setup) but they do add a lot of protection, dampening and deflection.
- robocat 5y ago
  The name “Bib mousse” was created by Michelin - Bib is short for Bibendum, which is the name of the Michelin man, and mousse is French for foam.

asciimike 5y ago

Re 3: Michelin has a "track connect" for their track tires ( https://www.michelinman.com/auto/why-michelin/technological-innovations/trackconnect https://www.michelinman.com/auto/why-michelin/technological-...) I haven't used it, and most serious track rats have a separate data system so the track connect features are potentially redundant, but I assume that it's an MVP of what a consumer product might look like in the future.

fred_is_fred 5y ago

#3 you'll end up paying $200/tire plus a monthly fee to use them. Upgrade to premium and get unlimited mileage plus insights on how you can be a better driver!

leetcrew 5y ago
more like insights for your insurer on how much to jack up your premiums.
jrockway 5y ago
I guess as part of this subscription plan they'll call you forty five times a day trying to get you to upgrade the warranty on the tires. At least there are a lot of qualified contractors they can outsource that to!

noipv4 5y ago

1) airless?? there's air within the wheel spokes pressurized to 1 atm

adrianmonk 5y ago

Official info on those 4 points: https://www.michelin.com/en/innovation/vision-concept/ https://www.michelin.com/en/innovation/vision-concept/ It is a company vision, not a product announcement, so as expected much of it is fuzzy and hypothetical, and it may or may not apply to this particular product. But this part offers a clearer idea of what rechargeable means: > The tread can be “recharged” using a 3D printer, which means that VISION can be adapted to motorists’ changing needs, for maximum comfort, safety and sustainability. They also have an official page for this actual product line, which is called Uptis (Unique Puncture-Proof Tire System): https://michelinmedia.com/michelin-uptis/ https://michelinmedia.com/michelin-uptis/ The FAQ on this latter page says stuff relevant to sustainability: > Today’s level of rolling resistance is about the same as a zero-pressure (“run flat”) tire ... > Uptis will have the same mileage of a standard tire. I believe this is an important part of sustainability because if mileage were worse, you'd gain in one area (reduced waste) and lose in another (increased energy usage). So if mileage really is the same, that's a good thing.