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Aptly put by the author: See you in court @Apple https://twitter.com/keleftheriou/status/1437845736951992321 https://twitter.com/keleftheriou/status/1437845736

by mfrw 5y ago

Aptly put by the author: See you in court @Apple https://twitter.com/keleftheriou/status/1437845736951992321 https://twitter.com/keleftheriou/status/1437845736951992321

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
Does the author stand a chance against the army of ivy league lawyers of a trillion dollar megacorp? I guess it would help if he's also American (don't know where he's from) so he could fight Apple on home turf and use the jury system on his side like "Evil megacorp steals from the little guy" (does it even work like this in the US or did I watch too many movies?), but I'm more curious how a lawsuit would go if he'd be in a jurisdiction different than the US. Like, if for example, the author would be Russian, could he sue Apple's Russian legal entity and they would just shrug it off as "Yeah, that's not us who screwed you, go to the US and sue the Apple US HQ."? As a non-lawyer I'm really curious how the legal system works for such disputes.
- mfrw 5y ago
  I am no expert; but I would never bet my money that justice will be served :(
- tomtimtall 5y ago
  I think no, but that army matches on quite a large load of cash, so they’ll likely offer him a settlement agreement which means he “losses” but gets paid. Not fair by any account, but I think that’s what is likely to happen.
  - Teckla 5y ago
    If Apple settles, wouldn't that incentivize other developers to sue Apple for the same and similar reasons? I'd think Apple would want to win the case to discourage other developers from doing the same thing.
- scns 5y ago
  We will only know if they try. Their lawyers may be handsomely rewarded if they win. Justice may be blind, we will see. Disclaimer: Sorry for postvac ramblings
- nautilus12 5y ago
  One thing recent history has taught us is that Ivy Leagues are very good at pumping out individuals that know how to win at all costs, with 0 regard for actual expertise or moral compass. Ivy Leagues serve the purpose of giving individuals the minimal artifacts of knowledge and virtue to get ahead, without its actual substance.
  - wayoutthere 5y ago
    The admissions process is a filter that selects for this. They also build class cohorts to include hierarchy climbers with people who were born at the top of the hierarchy — children of billionaires, politicians, etc. that perpetuate those hierarchies (and their accompanying morality). Ivy League schools are designed to be a filter for people who would make good amoral agents of capital, not an educational system in the classical sense.
    - strikelaserclaw 5y ago
      influential people's children who couldn't hack it in the traditional test based university admissions process in their own home countries love the ivies, i.e asian countries. There are a ton of brilliant people who go to ivies on their own merit but we can't deny that ivies do play a part in keeping the elite power structure intact (as you said). It is the same old game of capital vs labor, capital always seems to win out.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  Probably not. They will however probably end up settling. Take the money and wait for legislation.
- codemusings 5y ago
  I mean at the very least there could be a settlement since Apple most likely doesn't want to cause even more bad PR. But who knows.
- wongarsu 5y ago
  If you're Russian you can still sue Apple US. As a consumer you can usually do that in a court in your own country, as a business it depends (most contracts specify which court to use, but you can appeal to a local court that that's an undue burden, especially if it's a terms-of-service instead of a negotiated contract). Of course if a Russian court rules against Apple US the court has a harder time enforcing the ruling, but that's probably not a problem against a company like Apple who want to continue selling there.
- jdavis703 5y ago
  Legally I’m not sure the small developer has a chance. Not because the courts are unjust, it’s just hard to say whether Apple broke any laws here. It’s not to say they didn’t, it just doesn’t seem like there’s any slam dunk legal argument about wrongdoing (despite who this might feel morally).
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    >it’s just hard to say whether Apple broke any laws here Doesn't stealing someone's idea for an app/innovation and respinning it into your own implementation count as IP theft? IIRC the Winklevoss twins got paid handsomely as a settlement for Zuckerberg stealing their idea for Facebook. Granted, they were very rich and well connected so that helped.
    - jdavis703 5y ago
      Short answer is no, unless a patent or copyright is stolen. I believe the Winklevoss allegations stemmed from a belief that there was some sort of agreement or contract that was violated.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Ideas are not worth much, and there is no law against executing someone else’s idea. Winklevoss twins (or Connect U rather) got paid to shut up and go away at a time when it was obvious $65M was going to be pocket change for Facebook and their lawsuit was going to cost more in time for people at Facebook than $65M.
      - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        Thanks for clarifying, although $65M for Apple is pocket change they can scrape from between the couch cushions in Cupertino so they could get the author to shut up immediately if they wanted to.
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        A lawsuit about equity while a company is on the road to the biggest IPO in history in 2009 is different circumstances than a guy arguing against an established company in 2021. Apple could pay this guy off, but apparently their executives have decided he is not a sufficient PR problem or time expense to merit a payoff yet.
- stayfrosty420 5y ago
  I hope a large company comes and helps him out with this case. It will affect many companies.
- mlindner 5y ago
  > Does the author stand a chance against the army of ivy league lawyers of a trillion dollar megacorp? I'm tired of this meme. Getting better lawyers doesn't let you cheat the law.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
onsen 5y ago
I hate that he has to take on apple legal team by himself. I wish someone would put together a indie dev crowd-funded legal team on retainer to fight together in such incidents.
- 0xdeadb00f 5y ago
  Doesn't the EFF do that?
smoldesu 5y ago
They're about to get two scoops of California Soul: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Unfair_Competition_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Unfair_Competition_...
Grustaf 5y ago
What exactly would the crime be? Haven't Watch keyboards always been banned?

by mfrw 5y ago

Aptly put by the author: See you in court @Apple https://twitter.com/keleftheriou/status/1437845736951992321 https://twitter.com/keleftheriou/status/1437845736951992321

ChuckNorris89 5y ago

Does the author stand a chance against the army of ivy league lawyers of a trillion dollar megacorp? I guess it would help if he's also American (don't know where he's from) so he could fight Apple on home turf and use the jury system on his side like "Evil megacorp steals from the little guy" (does it even work like this in the US or did I watch too many movies?), but I'm more curious how a lawsuit would go if he'd be in a jurisdiction different than the US. Like, if for example, the author would be Russian, could he sue Apple's Russian legal entity and they would just shrug it off as "Yeah, that's not us who screwed you, go to the US and sue the Apple US HQ."? As a non-lawyer I'm really curious how the legal system works for such disputes.

mfrw 5y ago
I am no expert; but I would never bet my money that justice will be served :(
tomtimtall 5y ago
I think no, but that army matches on quite a large load of cash, so they’ll likely offer him a settlement agreement which means he “losses” but gets paid. Not fair by any account, but I think that’s what is likely to happen.
- Teckla 5y ago
  If Apple settles, wouldn't that incentivize other developers to sue Apple for the same and similar reasons? I'd think Apple would want to win the case to discourage other developers from doing the same thing.
scns 5y ago
We will only know if they try. Their lawyers may be handsomely rewarded if they win. Justice may be blind, we will see. Disclaimer: Sorry for postvac ramblings
nautilus12 5y ago
One thing recent history has taught us is that Ivy Leagues are very good at pumping out individuals that know how to win at all costs, with 0 regard for actual expertise or moral compass. Ivy Leagues serve the purpose of giving individuals the minimal artifacts of knowledge and virtue to get ahead, without its actual substance.
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  The admissions process is a filter that selects for this. They also build class cohorts to include hierarchy climbers with people who were born at the top of the hierarchy — children of billionaires, politicians, etc. that perpetuate those hierarchies (and their accompanying morality). Ivy League schools are designed to be a filter for people who would make good amoral agents of capital, not an educational system in the classical sense.
  - strikelaserclaw 5y ago
    influential people's children who couldn't hack it in the traditional test based university admissions process in their own home countries love the ivies, i.e asian countries. There are a ton of brilliant people who go to ivies on their own merit but we can't deny that ivies do play a part in keeping the elite power structure intact (as you said). It is the same old game of capital vs labor, capital always seems to win out.
mhh__ 5y ago
Probably not. They will however probably end up settling. Take the money and wait for legislation.
codemusings 5y ago
I mean at the very least there could be a settlement since Apple most likely doesn't want to cause even more bad PR. But who knows.
wongarsu 5y ago
If you're Russian you can still sue Apple US. As a consumer you can usually do that in a court in your own country, as a business it depends (most contracts specify which court to use, but you can appeal to a local court that that's an undue burden, especially if it's a terms-of-service instead of a negotiated contract). Of course if a Russian court rules against Apple US the court has a harder time enforcing the ruling, but that's probably not a problem against a company like Apple who want to continue selling there.
jdavis703 5y ago
Legally I’m not sure the small developer has a chance. Not because the courts are unjust, it’s just hard to say whether Apple broke any laws here. It’s not to say they didn’t, it just doesn’t seem like there’s any slam dunk legal argument about wrongdoing (despite who this might feel morally).
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >it’s just hard to say whether Apple broke any laws here Doesn't stealing someone's idea for an app/innovation and respinning it into your own implementation count as IP theft? IIRC the Winklevoss twins got paid handsomely as a settlement for Zuckerberg stealing their idea for Facebook. Granted, they were very rich and well connected so that helped.
  - jdavis703 5y ago
    Short answer is no, unless a patent or copyright is stolen. I believe the Winklevoss allegations stemmed from a belief that there was some sort of agreement or contract that was violated.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Ideas are not worth much, and there is no law against executing someone else’s idea. Winklevoss twins (or Connect U rather) got paid to shut up and go away at a time when it was obvious $65M was going to be pocket change for Facebook and their lawsuit was going to cost more in time for people at Facebook than $65M.
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      Thanks for clarifying, although $65M for Apple is pocket change they can scrape from between the couch cushions in Cupertino so they could get the author to shut up immediately if they wanted to.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        A lawsuit about equity while a company is on the road to the biggest IPO in history in 2009 is different circumstances than a guy arguing against an established company in 2021. Apple could pay this guy off, but apparently their executives have decided he is not a sufficient PR problem or time expense to merit a payoff yet.
stayfrosty420 5y ago
I hope a large company comes and helps him out with this case. It will affect many companies.
mlindner 5y ago
> Does the author stand a chance against the army of ivy league lawyers of a trillion dollar megacorp? I'm tired of this meme. Getting better lawyers doesn't let you cheat the law.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

onsen 5y ago

I hate that he has to take on apple legal team by himself. I wish someone would put together a indie dev crowd-funded legal team on retainer to fight together in such incidents.

0xdeadb00f 5y ago
Doesn't the EFF do that?

smoldesu 5y ago

They're about to get two scoops of California Soul: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Unfair_Competition_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Unfair_Competition_...

Grustaf 5y ago

What exactly would the crime be? Haven't Watch keyboards always been banned?