4 ms·

Nothing snobbish about wanting silent tires. Tires are one of the main factors for road noise, and road noise causes adverse health effects and death on a large

by tokai 5y ago

Nothing snobbish about wanting silent tires. Tires are one of the main factors for road noise, and road noise causes adverse health effects and death on a large scale.

ashtonkem 5y ago
It’s also a decent chunk of what causes economic blight for housing nearby highways.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Any noise a normal-ish passenger car is of no consequence compared to the noise of heavy trucks and motorcycles. You don't even notice it. It's only "blighted" because the people who self select to live beside a highway tend not to be the ones who care a ton about making their residence look nice from the street (manicured lawn, nice siding, sealed driveway, etc, etc) so the prices stay cheap, the rents stay low and the cycle continues. Source: I live beside a highway
  - Jackim 5y ago
    I disagree. The difference that I and many other people noticed on city streets during the initial COVID lockdowns was enormous. Cities aren’t loud places, the continuous white noise from passing passenger vehicles is the loud part. 60 km/h traffic is 10 times louder than people having a conversation.
    - ygra 5y ago
      Even 30 km/h is far from silent. Especially around intersections and traffic lights. And when you have trucks or buses accelerating it almost doesn't matter that a typical small car doesn't make that much noise at that speed anymore.
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    “Houses nearby highways are low value because the owners are too lazy to manicure their lawns” is an explanation I don’t buy one bit. It’s too “just so” for my tastes, and it also contradicts my own personal experience of having my house value go up despite us purposefully killing the yard. Home values change for a lot of reasons outside the owners control; blaming it on the owners for not caring sufficiently about curb appeal doesn’t hold water. A more likely explanation is that living near a highway sucks. Very few people want to hear traffic noise from their back yard, let alone smell exhaust fumes while trying to grill outside. People who can afford to will pay a premium for a quiet and peaceful backyard, and houses with traffic noise close to them will command a lower price to compensate for the lowered quality of life. The fact that we see a similar effect near airport runways is a supporting data point. I would in fact argue that you’ve got causation backwards. The curb appeal of houses near the highway is low because the home values are low. The people who live there are aware that nothing they can do will push the home value up because of the highway, or they lack the time and resources to focus on a manicured lawn.
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      >“Houses nearby highways are low value because the owners are too lazy to manicure their lawns” Well you're in luck because if you re-read my comment without the intent of building a strawman you'll see that that's not my explanation. My explanation is more or less "selection bias" I tried to offer some examples as to the mechanisms of such selection but you read right past them. >A more likely explanation is that living near a highway sucks. I like it specifically because people "who are willing to pay a premium for a quiet and peaceful back yard" do not elect to live in places like this if they have the option of paying that premium. This means I am free to use power tools into the evening, the business across the street is free to use heavy equipment in the morning, my neighbors are free to play loud music, have barking dogs, yell at their kids, etc. etc. etc. Things like not having to be anal about cutting our grass and keeping our houses nice follow quite naturally from that. If you don't care about other people's business in a similar manner the cost savings from living in this environment are tempting. >The fact that we see a similar effect near airport runways is a supporting data point. Yes, people who care about noise avoid those too. What's your point. >I would in fact argue that you’ve got causation backwards. The curb appeal of houses near the highway is low because the home values are low Values are low because a subset of people don't want to live here. Selection bias applies to both groups increasing the disparity. You are foolishly projecting your opinions onto everyone. Some people simply don't care about the noise. They cluster where it is noisy because why would they pay more to avoid something they don't place a high value on avoiding. Are these people a minority when you look at the population overall? Probably. Are these neighborhoods composed of many people who simply tolerate noise because they have no other rational option. You call this blight but I call this a reflection of our priorities.
  - anonAndOn 5y ago
    Living near a highway can have profound and long-lasting detrimental effects to one's health.[0] [0]https://www.lung.org/clean-air/outdoors/who-is-at-risk/highways https://www.lung.org/clean-air/outdoors/who-is-at-risk/highw...
- coryrc 5y ago
  I would think it's the air pollution reducing your lifespan and causing asthma. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su6203a8.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su6203a8.htm
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    You’ll notice I said “decent chunk” and not “100% of the cause”
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    The air pollution near a highway may be measurable, but it is not immediately visible. The road noise, on the other hand, is overwhelming as soon as you step outside. For sure road noise drives more of the blight on housing value near high speed highways.
sailfast 5y ago
Death on a large scale? This is the first time I’m hearing of this and I’d be interested to read more. Do you happen to have a study or something I can read?
- tokai 5y ago
  here's something https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/36/39/2653/2398234 https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/36/39/2653/239823... or this https://forcetechnology.com/en/articles/traffic-noise-dangerous-health-what-to-do-about-it https://forcetechnology.com/en/articles/traffic-noise-danger... 200-500 annual Danish deaths related to road noise pollution. Thats more than the number of people killed in traffic yearly.
  - pope_meat 5y ago
    I'm curious, how do we differentiate dying from noise pollution because you live close to a major throughway vs dying from the regular pollution that you're breathing in because you live close to a major throughway?
    - tokai 5y ago
      You try to control for statistical variables like pollution, occupation, and personal habits. I don't know anything about medical statistics, so I'm just accepting the conclusions of the road noise research. This paper should be helpful if you want to dig into the methodology one can use. https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/32/6/737/497025 https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/32/6/737/497025
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
barbazoo 5y ago
It'll be interesting to hear those on a EV whose afaik main source of noise are the tires.

by tokai 5y ago

Nothing snobbish about wanting silent tires. Tires are one of the main factors for road noise, and road noise causes adverse health effects and death on a large scale.

ashtonkem 5y ago

It’s also a decent chunk of what causes economic blight for housing nearby highways.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Any noise a normal-ish passenger car is of no consequence compared to the noise of heavy trucks and motorcycles. You don't even notice it. It's only "blighted" because the people who self select to live beside a highway tend not to be the ones who care a ton about making their residence look nice from the street (manicured lawn, nice siding, sealed driveway, etc, etc) so the prices stay cheap, the rents stay low and the cycle continues. Source: I live beside a highway
- Jackim 5y ago
  I disagree. The difference that I and many other people noticed on city streets during the initial COVID lockdowns was enormous. Cities aren’t loud places, the continuous white noise from passing passenger vehicles is the loud part. 60 km/h traffic is 10 times louder than people having a conversation.
  - ygra 5y ago
    Even 30 km/h is far from silent. Especially around intersections and traffic lights. And when you have trucks or buses accelerating it almost doesn't matter that a typical small car doesn't make that much noise at that speed anymore.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  “Houses nearby highways are low value because the owners are too lazy to manicure their lawns” is an explanation I don’t buy one bit. It’s too “just so” for my tastes, and it also contradicts my own personal experience of having my house value go up despite us purposefully killing the yard. Home values change for a lot of reasons outside the owners control; blaming it on the owners for not caring sufficiently about curb appeal doesn’t hold water. A more likely explanation is that living near a highway sucks. Very few people want to hear traffic noise from their back yard, let alone smell exhaust fumes while trying to grill outside. People who can afford to will pay a premium for a quiet and peaceful backyard, and houses with traffic noise close to them will command a lower price to compensate for the lowered quality of life. The fact that we see a similar effect near airport runways is a supporting data point. I would in fact argue that you’ve got causation backwards. The curb appeal of houses near the highway is low because the home values are low. The people who live there are aware that nothing they can do will push the home value up because of the highway, or they lack the time and resources to focus on a manicured lawn.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    >“Houses nearby highways are low value because the owners are too lazy to manicure their lawns” Well you're in luck because if you re-read my comment without the intent of building a strawman you'll see that that's not my explanation. My explanation is more or less "selection bias" I tried to offer some examples as to the mechanisms of such selection but you read right past them. >A more likely explanation is that living near a highway sucks. I like it specifically because people "who are willing to pay a premium for a quiet and peaceful back yard" do not elect to live in places like this if they have the option of paying that premium. This means I am free to use power tools into the evening, the business across the street is free to use heavy equipment in the morning, my neighbors are free to play loud music, have barking dogs, yell at their kids, etc. etc. etc. Things like not having to be anal about cutting our grass and keeping our houses nice follow quite naturally from that. If you don't care about other people's business in a similar manner the cost savings from living in this environment are tempting. >The fact that we see a similar effect near airport runways is a supporting data point. Yes, people who care about noise avoid those too. What's your point. >I would in fact argue that you’ve got causation backwards. The curb appeal of houses near the highway is low because the home values are low Values are low because a subset of people don't want to live here. Selection bias applies to both groups increasing the disparity. You are foolishly projecting your opinions onto everyone. Some people simply don't care about the noise. They cluster where it is noisy because why would they pay more to avoid something they don't place a high value on avoiding. Are these people a minority when you look at the population overall? Probably. Are these neighborhoods composed of many people who simply tolerate noise because they have no other rational option. You call this blight but I call this a reflection of our priorities.
- anonAndOn 5y ago
  Living near a highway can have profound and long-lasting detrimental effects to one's health.[0] [0]https://www.lung.org/clean-air/outdoors/who-is-at-risk/highways https://www.lung.org/clean-air/outdoors/who-is-at-risk/highw...
coryrc 5y ago
I would think it's the air pollution reducing your lifespan and causing asthma. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su6203a8.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su6203a8.htm
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  You’ll notice I said “decent chunk” and not “100% of the cause”
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  The air pollution near a highway may be measurable, but it is not immediately visible. The road noise, on the other hand, is overwhelming as soon as you step outside. For sure road noise drives more of the blight on housing value near high speed highways.

sailfast 5y ago

Death on a large scale? This is the first time I’m hearing of this and I’d be interested to read more. Do you happen to have a study or something I can read?

tokai 5y ago
here's something https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/36/39/2653/2398234 https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/36/39/2653/239823... or this https://forcetechnology.com/en/articles/traffic-noise-dangerous-health-what-to-do-about-it https://forcetechnology.com/en/articles/traffic-noise-danger... 200-500 annual Danish deaths related to road noise pollution. Thats more than the number of people killed in traffic yearly.
- pope_meat 5y ago
  I'm curious, how do we differentiate dying from noise pollution because you live close to a major throughway vs dying from the regular pollution that you're breathing in because you live close to a major throughway?
  - tokai 5y ago
    You try to control for statistical variables like pollution, occupation, and personal habits. I don't know anything about medical statistics, so I'm just accepting the conclusions of the road noise research. This paper should be helpful if you want to dig into the methodology one can use. https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/32/6/737/497025 https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/32/6/737/497025
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

barbazoo 5y ago

It'll be interesting to hear those on a EV whose afaik main source of noise are the tires.