4 ms·

Wait, aren't we planning to make sure everyone believes the asteroid story first before building additional stories on top of it?

codefreakxff 5y ago
Can’t tell if that’s sarcasm There’s no way to make sure everyone believes anything. So. No.
- Out_of_Characte 5y ago
  It wasn't. There's definitely an extinction-level event near the rumored asteroid but the evidence is not overwhelming. asteroid hits are very very time specific one second you're fine, the next an asteroid is supposedly killing more than half of all life on the planet. yet 'some' reduction in species is rumored to have happened before the impact which negates the asteroid theory
  - eesmith 5y ago
    Which "rumored asteroid" do you refer to? You don't think an asteroid caused the Chicxulub crater? There's an awful lot of evidence in support of it. How else do you explain a 180 km crater, the iridium layer, the shocked stone, the ejecta spherules, etc? There are several relevant asteroid theories. Since you say "negate", I assume you mean the theory that the asteroid was the sole cause of the K-Pg extinction event? Shrug. Okay. Perhaps there were multiple causes; volcanism, marine regression, and extraterrestrial impact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretaceous%E2%80%93Paleogene_extinction_event#Multiple_causes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretaceous%E2%80%93Paleogene_e... . I don't think anyone would be severely upset should this prove true. That's still an asteroid theory.
  - AbrahamParangi 5y ago
    You can also get “evidence” of species reduction pre-impact with archeological error- by accidentally classing post impact material as pre.
vivekd 5y ago
I don't know why your comment has gotten downvoted so much. Astroid impact proponents present their view as rock solid but the reality is there are holes in the evidence (like population decline prior to impact) and credible alternative theories like massive volcanic activity. The entire field of palentology seems like an acrimonous mess. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/09/dinosaur-extinction-debate/565769/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/09/dinosau...
- EdwardDiego 5y ago
  Why not both asteroids and the Deccan Traps? Given it was spewing out massive amount of gases for millions of years prior to the Yucatan impact, I don't see any conflict between the population declines prior and the Yucatan impact finishing it off.
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    Or the impact itself amplifying the erruption(s) and impacts. The seismic ground shock would have been felt around the world. At the antipodes, depending on the model chosen, there might have been from 4--30m of vertical displacement. http://www.geologyinmotion.com/2011/10/chicxulub-impact-what-happened-on.html http://www.geologyinmotion.com/2011/10/chicxulub-impact-what... AFAIU, this would have been nearer Australia than India, though I'm not certain, and the Indian plate and Deccan Traps could plausibly have been within or near the enhanced antipodal seismic zone.
- eesmith 5y ago
  There is no real doubt that the Chicxulub bolide impact occurred, caused shockwaves and tsunamis, and ejected a bunch of hot material. Eg, quoting https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/116/17/8190.full.pdf https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/116/17/8190.full.pdf, "The KPg boundary ... is distinguished by impact-related debris, including a distinctive iridium anomaly, shocked minerals, ejecta spherules, microkrystites, nanodiamonds, and occasionally unaltered impact-melt glass." (That paper is about the amazing Tanis site, where a ∼1.3-m-thick deposit records events which occurred minutes to hours after the impact, and includes pterosaur fossils and perhaps dinosaur feathers and a hip bone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanis_(fossil_site) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanis_(fossil_site) ) Even if non-avian dinosaurs were killed off earlier by consequences of the Deccan traps, we know modern snakes survived, so their ancestors must have survived the Chicxulub impact.
Sebb767 5y ago
The fact that we're not 100% sure of a theory does not prevent us from building upon it. See, for example, all the work built on the basis of dark matter and dark energy. Proving this dependent theory might even help solidify the original one.
yesenadam 5y ago
The first paragraph of the Introduction of the actual paper discusses "the asteroid story" and the evidence for it and has a dozen links to papers on the subject. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-25136-y https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-25136-y

codefreakxff 5y ago

Can’t tell if that’s sarcasm There’s no way to make sure everyone believes anything. So. No.

Out_of_Characte 5y ago
It wasn't. There's definitely an extinction-level event near the rumored asteroid but the evidence is not overwhelming. asteroid hits are very very time specific one second you're fine, the next an asteroid is supposedly killing more than half of all life on the planet. yet 'some' reduction in species is rumored to have happened before the impact which negates the asteroid theory
- eesmith 5y ago
  Which "rumored asteroid" do you refer to? You don't think an asteroid caused the Chicxulub crater? There's an awful lot of evidence in support of it. How else do you explain a 180 km crater, the iridium layer, the shocked stone, the ejecta spherules, etc? There are several relevant asteroid theories. Since you say "negate", I assume you mean the theory that the asteroid was the sole cause of the K-Pg extinction event? Shrug. Okay. Perhaps there were multiple causes; volcanism, marine regression, and extraterrestrial impact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretaceous%E2%80%93Paleogene_extinction_event#Multiple_causes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretaceous%E2%80%93Paleogene_e... . I don't think anyone would be severely upset should this prove true. That's still an asteroid theory.
- AbrahamParangi 5y ago
  You can also get “evidence” of species reduction pre-impact with archeological error- by accidentally classing post impact material as pre.

vivekd 5y ago

I don't know why your comment has gotten downvoted so much. Astroid impact proponents present their view as rock solid but the reality is there are holes in the evidence (like population decline prior to impact) and credible alternative theories like massive volcanic activity. The entire field of palentology seems like an acrimonous mess. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/09/dinosaur-extinction-debate/565769/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/09/dinosau...

EdwardDiego 5y ago
Why not both asteroids and the Deccan Traps? Given it was spewing out massive amount of gases for millions of years prior to the Yucatan impact, I don't see any conflict between the population declines prior and the Yucatan impact finishing it off.
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  Or the impact itself amplifying the erruption(s) and impacts. The seismic ground shock would have been felt around the world. At the antipodes, depending on the model chosen, there might have been from 4--30m of vertical displacement. http://www.geologyinmotion.com/2011/10/chicxulub-impact-what-happened-on.html http://www.geologyinmotion.com/2011/10/chicxulub-impact-what... AFAIU, this would have been nearer Australia than India, though I'm not certain, and the Indian plate and Deccan Traps could plausibly have been within or near the enhanced antipodal seismic zone.
eesmith 5y ago
There is no real doubt that the Chicxulub bolide impact occurred, caused shockwaves and tsunamis, and ejected a bunch of hot material. Eg, quoting https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/116/17/8190.full.pdf https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/116/17/8190.full.pdf, "The KPg boundary ... is distinguished by impact-related debris, including a distinctive iridium anomaly, shocked minerals, ejecta spherules, microkrystites, nanodiamonds, and occasionally unaltered impact-melt glass." (That paper is about the amazing Tanis site, where a ∼1.3-m-thick deposit records events which occurred minutes to hours after the impact, and includes pterosaur fossils and perhaps dinosaur feathers and a hip bone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanis_(fossil_site) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanis_(fossil_site) ) Even if non-avian dinosaurs were killed off earlier by consequences of the Deccan traps, we know modern snakes survived, so their ancestors must have survived the Chicxulub impact.

Sebb767 5y ago

The fact that we're not 100% sure of a theory does not prevent us from building upon it. See, for example, all the work built on the basis of dark matter and dark energy. Proving this dependent theory might even help solidify the original one.

yesenadam 5y ago

The first paragraph of the Introduction of the actual paper discusses "the asteroid story" and the evidence for it and has a dozen links to papers on the subject. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-25136-y https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-25136-y