3 ms·

While I support pay equity, will this simply cause secret renumeration to shift to bonuses/RSUs?

by r00fus 5y ago

jdblair 5y ago
Bonuses and RSU are part of a pay package. If transparency is required, it will include all forms. After all, the IRS already knows.
- NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
  But bonuses are typically discretionary compensation that will vary from year to year based on the performance of the firm and of the individual, no? Or even more obviously: what if I advertise a sales job that pays only on commission?
  - jdblair 5y ago
    This isn't as hard as you make it sound. You know the bonuses you awarded last year. Being transparent means you reveal that. Foo's salary is X, last year Foo received Y bonus, which was Z% of his then salary. A sales job that pays only commission still has compensation data: the commission percentage per salesperson, the commission paid during the previous pay period. This tells you what you are likely to make, and if your commission is the same as others.
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    Are bonuses a mystery or do you have actual metrics that you can use to gauge whether or not you might get a bonus? Are they not part of your compensation? Who would take a sales job that doesn't list what sort of commission they'll be getting? And wouldn't average income from such a job actually be helpful if you are deciding to take it? Sure, it is wonderful if you get commission each time you sell a car, but if folks aren't getting paid very much per year, it probably means cars aren't selling as well as the what the "possible income of xxx.xx" is saying they are. These are all things that can be disclosed and if they aren't, do you want to work in places that have secret formulas to give you pay?
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    Bonuses should be same for same role and out put metrics. With sales everyone should have rights to same base-pay+ commission structures. They could even choose from a few and be allowed to change them every quarter or year.
gigatexal 5y ago
Probably. But then that too will likely become public. I forget which Scandinavian country this is true for but I think there exists a country where compensation is a matter of public record. I support this 100%. I want everything to be transparent here. I know where I stand skills and competency wise compared to my colleagues so I will be ok making less than those I am less skilled or less productive as. That being said I think I’m underpaid. A transparent pay structure will only benefit the employees as we learn in Economics: the more information about prices there are in a situation the better each actor can make choices.
- thg 5y ago
  > I forget which Scandinavian country this is true for but I think there exists a country where compensation is a matter of public record. It's Sweden.
  - jhrozek 5y ago
    I think it’s Finland. I’m in Sweden and I’m almost sure that my compensation is not public. What you can do IIRC is to request a credit check on someone which would contain the income and the tax paid but then the person is notified who requested the data. Typically this is done when you apply for a mortgage.
    - m_eiman 5y ago
      Paid tax and taxable income is public in Sweden, just call Skatteverket (Swedish IRS) and they'll send you the info on anyone you can name. Edit: more info in Swedish here: https://lawline.se/answers/ar-inkomstdeklarationer-allmanna-handlingar https://lawline.se/answers/ar-inkomstdeklarationer-allmanna-...
    - willvarfar 5y ago
      In Sweden, Norway _and_ Finland. The tax you pay is public record. For example, in Sweden, you can get a 'tax calendar' (a bit like an old-fashioned phonebook, but with total pay instead of phone numbers). You can buy relevant pages conveniently online. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxeringskalendern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxeringskalendern It is a trivial division-by-twelve to determine the salary of your co-workers and neighbours.

While I support pay equity, will this simply cause secret renumeration to shift to bonuses/RSUs?

by r00fus 5y ago

While I support pay equity, will this simply cause secret renumeration to shift to bonuses/RSUs?

Bonuses and RSU are part of a pay package. If transparency is required, it will include all forms. After all, the IRS already knows.

NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
But bonuses are typically discretionary compensation that will vary from year to year based on the performance of the firm and of the individual, no? Or even more obviously: what if I advertise a sales job that pays only on commission?
- jdblair 5y ago
  This isn't as hard as you make it sound. You know the bonuses you awarded last year. Being transparent means you reveal that. Foo's salary is X, last year Foo received Y bonus, which was Z% of his then salary. A sales job that pays only commission still has compensation data: the commission percentage per salesperson, the commission paid during the previous pay period. This tells you what you are likely to make, and if your commission is the same as others.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  Are bonuses a mystery or do you have actual metrics that you can use to gauge whether or not you might get a bonus? Are they not part of your compensation? Who would take a sales job that doesn't list what sort of commission they'll be getting? And wouldn't average income from such a job actually be helpful if you are deciding to take it? Sure, it is wonderful if you get commission each time you sell a car, but if folks aren't getting paid very much per year, it probably means cars aren't selling as well as the what the "possible income of xxx.xx" is saying they are. These are all things that can be disclosed and if they aren't, do you want to work in places that have secret formulas to give you pay?
- Ekaros 5y ago
  Bonuses should be same for same role and out put metrics. With sales everyone should have rights to same base-pay+ commission structures. They could even choose from a few and be allowed to change them every quarter or year.

gigatexal 5y ago

Probably. But then that too will likely become public. I forget which Scandinavian country this is true for but I think there exists a country where compensation is a matter of public record. I support this 100%. I want everything to be transparent here. I know where I stand skills and competency wise compared to my colleagues so I will be ok making less than those I am less skilled or less productive as. That being said I think I’m underpaid. A transparent pay structure will only benefit the employees as we learn in Economics: the more information about prices there are in a situation the better each actor can make choices.

thg 5y ago
> I forget which Scandinavian country this is true for but I think there exists a country where compensation is a matter of public record. It's Sweden.
- jhrozek 5y ago
  I think it’s Finland. I’m in Sweden and I’m almost sure that my compensation is not public. What you can do IIRC is to request a credit check on someone which would contain the income and the tax paid but then the person is notified who requested the data. Typically this is done when you apply for a mortgage.
  - m_eiman 5y ago
    Paid tax and taxable income is public in Sweden, just call Skatteverket (Swedish IRS) and they'll send you the info on anyone you can name. Edit: more info in Swedish here: https://lawline.se/answers/ar-inkomstdeklarationer-allmanna-handlingar https://lawline.se/answers/ar-inkomstdeklarationer-allmanna-...
  - willvarfar 5y ago
    In Sweden, Norway _and_ Finland. The tax you pay is public record. For example, in Sweden, you can get a 'tax calendar' (a bit like an old-fashioned phonebook, but with total pay instead of phone numbers). You can buy relevant pages conveniently online. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxeringskalendern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxeringskalendern It is a trivial division-by-twelve to determine the salary of your co-workers and neighbours.