4 ms·

You are assuming that getting vaccinated is a burden, and then comparing it to challenges that many people take years, or longer, to overcome. That makes absolu

You are assuming that getting vaccinated is a burden, and then comparing it to challenges that many people take years, or longer, to overcome. That makes absolutely no sense. Getting vaccinated takes just a few minutes, and has no long term consequences for virtually everyone, and does not require ongoing effort of any kind. In no way is getting vaccinated comparable to struggling with obesity, quitting cigarettes, or alcoholism. Sorry, but your comparisons are, frankly, bizarre.

johnnyApplePRNG 5y ago
We could choose to not sell pure sugar as food in grocery stores, cigarettes, alcohol, or firearms for that matter in the first place... Funny enough, during the initial/strictest lockdowns in Ontario Canada, the liquor stores were one of the only stores allowed to be open to the public.
spaginal 5y ago
They haven’t studied these genetic therapies long term to know if what you assert is the case. We already know there are health issues associated now with the mrna shots. We could see a rash of issues show up in the next couple of years.
- jumpkick 5y ago
  “We already know there are health issues associated now with the mrna shots.” What issues? This is the first I’m hearing of this. Details and sources please.
  - quantumBerry 5y ago
    Of course not in all cases can we prove that the health issues are 100% the shot, but it looks extremely likely the shot causes health issues in rare cases [1]: -Anaphalaxysis in 2-5 per million peoples -Thrombosis (2 reported cases from J&J) -Myocarditis / Pericarditis : 854 confirmed The benefits appear to far exceed the risk at the population level. But that's not much consolation at the individual level if you are someone predisposed to anaphylaxis or thrombosis, which are potentially life threatening, in which case at the individual level the vaccine may look to not be worth the risks. Better screening tools could help identify individuals with these risks. I'm also not sure there are any mRNA vaccines for which we have to compare in humans that have been out few years and FDA approved. It is my understanding the COVID vaccine was the first widely distributed mRNA vaccine in humans. I have no reason to believe they are dangerous, but they are lacking any long term studies in humans on any large scale. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad...
    - inciampati 5y ago
      We are also lacking evidence for what happens after booster shots are given repeatedly. (Or even in the cohort that has been infected and double vaccinated.) We are participating in an open trial to find out. It's only rational to consider that there may be yet-unobserved risks.
  - logicchains 5y ago
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v... an example.
- himinlomax 5y ago
  > genetic therapies This is just as fallacious as saying the jab makes you magnetic.
logicchains 5y ago
It does have consequences in some, e.g. teenagers are more likely to be hospitalised for a side effect of the vax than they are to be hospitalised for covid: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v...
- boplicity 5y ago
  > teenagers are more likely to be hospitalised for a side effect of the vax than they are to be hospitalised for covid You're omitting a very important fact. The risk of hospitaliztion listed in the article is not based on the percentage of teenagers who had COVID; it is based on the percentage who might get COVID over the next 120 days. That's a very different number. If things continue as they are, then almost everyone will either get COVID or get vaccinated (or both). It only makes sense to compare the risks based on actually getting COVID, vs. getting vaccinated.
- snovv_crash 5y ago
  Could you give me both of those numbers as a percentage, and then compare it to the risk of, oh, let's say driving a car 100 miles in an urban area?
heisenbit 5y ago
I‘m not anti-vax, got vaccinated twice but I also have a health condition that was made worse by the second round and it took me 3 months to get back where I was. At times I was thinking checking myself into hospital to get support dealing with the fallout. Talking to a specialist who sees lots of people like me (with not so standard immune systems) she confirmed that my experience was not uncommon at all. Here in Germany we have digitally signed vax certificates & photo ids but still count a PCR positive proven infection confirmed by a doctor as equivalent. I struggle to understand any concerns in the US - considering the general state of IDs and certificates - about treating one infection like one shot. It makes no medical and no proof sense. And however good and generally safe a shot is it is still a medical procedure and medical ethics apply. The argument that one shot is enough sends the wrong message should be dwarfed by concerns what message is sent by ignoring globally recognized insights and medical ethics.

johnnyApplePRNG 5y ago

We could choose to not sell pure sugar as food in grocery stores, cigarettes, alcohol, or firearms for that matter in the first place... Funny enough, during the initial/strictest lockdowns in Ontario Canada, the liquor stores were one of the only stores allowed to be open to the public.

spaginal 5y ago

They haven’t studied these genetic therapies long term to know if what you assert is the case. We already know there are health issues associated now with the mrna shots. We could see a rash of issues show up in the next couple of years.

jumpkick 5y ago
“We already know there are health issues associated now with the mrna shots.” What issues? This is the first I’m hearing of this. Details and sources please.
- quantumBerry 5y ago
  Of course not in all cases can we prove that the health issues are 100% the shot, but it looks extremely likely the shot causes health issues in rare cases [1]: -Anaphalaxysis in 2-5 per million peoples -Thrombosis (2 reported cases from J&J) -Myocarditis / Pericarditis : 854 confirmed The benefits appear to far exceed the risk at the population level. But that's not much consolation at the individual level if you are someone predisposed to anaphylaxis or thrombosis, which are potentially life threatening, in which case at the individual level the vaccine may look to not be worth the risks. Better screening tools could help identify individuals with these risks. I'm also not sure there are any mRNA vaccines for which we have to compare in humans that have been out few years and FDA approved. It is my understanding the COVID vaccine was the first widely distributed mRNA vaccine in humans. I have no reason to believe they are dangerous, but they are lacking any long term studies in humans on any large scale. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad...
  - inciampati 5y ago
    We are also lacking evidence for what happens after booster shots are given repeatedly. (Or even in the cohort that has been infected and double vaccinated.) We are participating in an open trial to find out. It's only rational to consider that there may be yet-unobserved risks.
- logicchains 5y ago
  https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v... an example.
himinlomax 5y ago
> genetic therapies This is just as fallacious as saying the jab makes you magnetic.

logicchains 5y ago

It does have consequences in some, e.g. teenagers are more likely to be hospitalised for a side effect of the vax than they are to be hospitalised for covid: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v...

boplicity 5y ago
> teenagers are more likely to be hospitalised for a side effect of the vax than they are to be hospitalised for covid You're omitting a very important fact. The risk of hospitaliztion listed in the article is not based on the percentage of teenagers who had COVID; it is based on the percentage who might get COVID over the next 120 days. That's a very different number. If things continue as they are, then almost everyone will either get COVID or get vaccinated (or both). It only makes sense to compare the risks based on actually getting COVID, vs. getting vaccinated.
snovv_crash 5y ago
Could you give me both of those numbers as a percentage, and then compare it to the risk of, oh, let's say driving a car 100 miles in an urban area?

heisenbit 5y ago

I‘m not anti-vax, got vaccinated twice but I also have a health condition that was made worse by the second round and it took me 3 months to get back where I was. At times I was thinking checking myself into hospital to get support dealing with the fallout. Talking to a specialist who sees lots of people like me (with not so standard immune systems) she confirmed that my experience was not uncommon at all. Here in Germany we have digitally signed vax certificates & photo ids but still count a PCR positive proven infection confirmed by a doctor as equivalent. I struggle to understand any concerns in the US - considering the general state of IDs and certificates - about treating one infection like one shot. It makes no medical and no proof sense. And however good and generally safe a shot is it is still a medical procedure and medical ethics apply. The argument that one shot is enough sends the wrong message should be dwarfed by concerns what message is sent by ignoring globally recognized insights and medical ethics.