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The people who work at McKinsey are, in the context of the American class system, members of the elite. They are not the oppressed proletariat. They're soft-han

The people who work at McKinsey are, in the context of the American class system, members of the elite. They are not the oppressed proletariat. They're soft-handed, Ivy League educated elites fighting to climb the top rungs of the status ladder. That's always been difficult throughout human history, and if the biggest hardship of our elite is 2 AM Zoom calls, we should find a more deserving elite. Don't get me wrong. I certainly don't want to be on any 2 AM Zoom calls. But I also don't aspire to be a member of the elite. And if I did, I would probably be willing to endure hardship in order to achieve that goal. But there's another level to this. At one point, the left advocated for the working class, and a leftist rag like Mother Jones wouldn't be caught dead publishing entitled whining from members of the soft-handed elite class complaining about how difficult their lives are. But now, for some reason, the McKinsey class has managed to co-opt the left and cast themselves as the victims.

secondaryacct 5y ago
Dividing people in classes and showing no empathy for those you dislike is supposed to be what's bad with the "elite" fantasy (everyone, with a bit of work, can get a slave job anywhere)
- Viliam1234 5y ago
  Yes, this "from my perspective, you are elite, so it is okay to abuse you for a while" will quickly backfire on people lower on the social ladder. It is okay to wake up McKinsey employees at 2AM, because hey, they make more money than most of us. It is okay to make software developers work 60 hours a week, because hey, they make more money than most of us (from the perspective of someone outside the Hacker News audience). It is okay to... mistreat people in some sweatshop, because hey, they make slightly more money than... people working in some other sweatshop. How about instead adopting the rule "40 hours a week, not a second more, full stop, no exception". Yeah, some rich kids would benefit from that, too. But you wouldn't have to worry that the lack of empathy will trickle down to you, so maybe it's a smarter strategy in long term. (Especially for the Hacker News readers, who are often not that far from the top.)
  - philwelch 5y ago
    It's not about money. It's about aristocracy. Aristocrats aren't necessarily richer than the middle or working class in monetary terms. Class is more about status and power than about money. If it were up to me, I would abolish the aristocracy and dissolve aristocratic institutions such as McKinsey that don't appear to contribute anything to society. But if we're going to have an elite, let's at least hope they have the decency to shut the fuck up about how hard it is being a member of the hereditary upper class.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
tomtimtall 5y ago
The notion that any working class individual should not care about any other working class individuals who draw a higher salary then themselves is whats keeping the working class from properly organizing and balancing power against actual elites, which is those who own companies like McKinsey, not those who are just salaried employees, let alone the entry level employees. Its odd that’s people have such an easy time having sympathy towards the mistreated, but immediately lose that sympathy once they realize that the affected make more a month than they do.
- philwelch 5y ago
  People who work for McKinsey are not "working class". They are junior members of the upper class who are being fast-tracked into largely undeserved positions of status and power by virtue of their class affinity. They are the nearest thing America has to aristocrats. Tell me, exactly what actual expertise does some 20-something kid fresh out of college have in terms of business management? If that kid actually started their own business and became a successful entrepreneur, I might believe they'd know what they were doing, but then they'd probably be rich enough that they wouldn't have time for McKinsey. (Money is not equivalent to social class.) So instead of those kids, McKinsey ends up with the kids whose life strategy is to leverage their class status to navigate their way through existing institutions. Which makes them a fairly strong parallel to the old European aristocrats who managed to gain commissions as army and navy officers without any particular demonstrated expertise in military or naval affairs. Though it's unfair of me to pin this entirely on the old European aristocracy. Our aristocracy also has their way of gaining undeserved naval commissions: > A direct commission officer (DCO) is a United States uniformed officer who has received an appointed commission without the typical prerequisites for achieving a commission, such as attending a four-year service academy, a four-year or two-year college ROTC program, or one of the officer candidate school or officer training school programs, the latter OCS/OTS programs typically slightly over three months in length. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_commission_officer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_commission_officer > After earning his Oxford degree, in 2007 Buttigieg became a consultant at the Chicago office of McKinsey & Company....Buttigieg joined the U.S. Navy Reserve through the direct commission officer (DCO) program and was sworn in as an ensign in naval intelligence in September 2009. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Buttigieg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Buttigieg > [Hunter] Biden received an age-related waiver and a waiver due to a past drug-related incident; he was sworn in as a direct commission officer.... The following month, Biden tested positive for cocaine during a urinalysis test and was subsequently discharged administratively. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden

secondaryacct 5y ago

Dividing people in classes and showing no empathy for those you dislike is supposed to be what's bad with the "elite" fantasy (everyone, with a bit of work, can get a slave job anywhere)

Viliam1234 5y ago
Yes, this "from my perspective, you are elite, so it is okay to abuse you for a while" will quickly backfire on people lower on the social ladder. It is okay to wake up McKinsey employees at 2AM, because hey, they make more money than most of us. It is okay to make software developers work 60 hours a week, because hey, they make more money than most of us (from the perspective of someone outside the Hacker News audience). It is okay to... mistreat people in some sweatshop, because hey, they make slightly more money than... people working in some other sweatshop. How about instead adopting the rule "40 hours a week, not a second more, full stop, no exception". Yeah, some rich kids would benefit from that, too. But you wouldn't have to worry that the lack of empathy will trickle down to you, so maybe it's a smarter strategy in long term. (Especially for the Hacker News readers, who are often not that far from the top.)
- philwelch 5y ago
  It's not about money. It's about aristocracy. Aristocrats aren't necessarily richer than the middle or working class in monetary terms. Class is more about status and power than about money. If it were up to me, I would abolish the aristocracy and dissolve aristocratic institutions such as McKinsey that don't appear to contribute anything to society. But if we're going to have an elite, let's at least hope they have the decency to shut the fuck up about how hard it is being a member of the hereditary upper class.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

tomtimtall 5y ago

The notion that any working class individual should not care about any other working class individuals who draw a higher salary then themselves is whats keeping the working class from properly organizing and balancing power against actual elites, which is those who own companies like McKinsey, not those who are just salaried employees, let alone the entry level employees. Its odd that’s people have such an easy time having sympathy towards the mistreated, but immediately lose that sympathy once they realize that the affected make more a month than they do.

philwelch 5y ago
People who work for McKinsey are not "working class". They are junior members of the upper class who are being fast-tracked into largely undeserved positions of status and power by virtue of their class affinity. They are the nearest thing America has to aristocrats. Tell me, exactly what actual expertise does some 20-something kid fresh out of college have in terms of business management? If that kid actually started their own business and became a successful entrepreneur, I might believe they'd know what they were doing, but then they'd probably be rich enough that they wouldn't have time for McKinsey. (Money is not equivalent to social class.) So instead of those kids, McKinsey ends up with the kids whose life strategy is to leverage their class status to navigate their way through existing institutions. Which makes them a fairly strong parallel to the old European aristocrats who managed to gain commissions as army and navy officers without any particular demonstrated expertise in military or naval affairs. Though it's unfair of me to pin this entirely on the old European aristocracy. Our aristocracy also has their way of gaining undeserved naval commissions: > A direct commission officer (DCO) is a United States uniformed officer who has received an appointed commission without the typical prerequisites for achieving a commission, such as attending a four-year service academy, a four-year or two-year college ROTC program, or one of the officer candidate school or officer training school programs, the latter OCS/OTS programs typically slightly over three months in length. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_commission_officer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_commission_officer > After earning his Oxford degree, in 2007 Buttigieg became a consultant at the Chicago office of McKinsey & Company....Buttigieg joined the U.S. Navy Reserve through the direct commission officer (DCO) program and was sworn in as an ensign in naval intelligence in September 2009. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Buttigieg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Buttigieg > [Hunter] Biden received an age-related waiver and a waiver due to a past drug-related incident; he was sworn in as a direct commission officer.... The following month, Biden tested positive for cocaine during a urinalysis test and was subsequently discharged administratively. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden