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> No one has died getting their immunity from the vaccine Wow. Really? No one? There are 13k+ COVID-19 vaccine related deaths on VAERS alone. Those are ONLY t

by borplk 5y ago

> No one has died getting their immunity from the vaccine Wow. Really? No one? There are 13k+ COVID-19 vaccine related deaths on VAERS alone. Those are ONLY the ones that have been certified and given a permanent VAERS number (as opposed to a temporary VAERS number that is given out initially). The report submission process is time consuming, most of those are submitted by doctors and it's a crime to submit false info as well.

glial 5y ago
As far as I can tell, that's misinformation. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid19-vaers-idUSL1N2PB2H3 https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid19-vaers-idUS... > According to CDC guidance listed on its page reporting adverse events from COVID-19 vaccines, seen here , there have been 6,340 reports of death (0.0019%) recorded from December 14, 2020, to July 26, 2021 "among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine." It is important to note that the "FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it is unclear whether the vaccine was the cause.” Please correct me if I'm wrong.
- borplk 5y ago
  Firstly these "fact check" websites, including Reuters have become a joke. They clearly have an agenda and many also have conflicts of interest. They pretend that just because they call themselves "fact checkers" it automatically makes everything they say true. They have nameless faceless self-proclaimed "experts" that often make a straw man and "fact check" the straw man as false and call it a day. And a naive person just googles a few keywords, sees the - usually first link - "Fact-check: that thing you were told is totally wrong" article and thinks "Hah! Fact checkers say it's false! Debunked misinformation again!" Big pharma has billions of dollars of interests to protect. The average so called "anti vax" person has nothing to gain or lose from whether other people do or don't take a vaccine. So a rational person should not so easily accept the commercial propaganda pushed by these companies. Secondly health care professionals submit the report when they have reason to believe that it is a "vaccine adverse event". Otherwise the "event" is not relevant, the person will not even consider or bother to make the report to begin with. "even if it is unclear whether the vaccine was the cause" part is a technicality because yes at the time they are submitting it "is not clear" if vaccine is indeed the cause and it is to be investigated. They will then contact the person that submitted it and if it's a valid report they will assign a permanent number to the report. There are many obstacles to submitting the report. And since it is voluntary it is under counting. In Australia 9 deaths are officially accepted as vaccine-related. Again unlike with covid they do anything they can to keep this number low. It is a minimum. I don't claim to know what the actual number is but it absolutely positively is not ZERO.
grey413 5y ago
VAERS reports can (and should) be done for any death following vaccination, whether or not anyone thinks that death was vaccine-related. There's no evidence that the "13k+ COVID-19 vaccine related deaths" are anything of the sort; VEARS is simply not the sort of scientific study that can provide that sort of evidence. VEARS can throw up red flags for safety halts and further study (as happened with the Johnson and Johnson vaccine), but that's it. It's definitely, definitely not some gotcha data-point for you to wave around to attack the vaccines as unsafe.
- h2odragon 5y ago
  "COVID Cases" turns out to be anyone with covid who might be in the hospital for anything else. COVID deaths have included people "greedily" the same way. Shouldn't the vaccine be counted by the same standards and the same statistical methods used?
  - grey413 5y ago
    Comparing Covid statistics to VAERS is comparing apples to oranges. I completely reject your premise that the covid statistics are shoddy. It's easy to confirm a covid case. You do a PCR test, and if you get a positive back it's covid, end of story. It's admittedly a bit trickier to attribute a covid death... but not really. If a covid patient dies of a heart attack, it could be bad luck, or it could be the disease that coagulates its victims' blood. But usually it's pretty obvious. Someone dying of pneumonia and/or a cytokine storm isn't exactly subtle. There's nothing in the overall death statistics that suggest that the obvious covid deaths are anything but the obvious. By comparison, establishing a casual connection between a vaccine and any adverse side effects is incredibly difficult, simply because they're so rare. Of the 44000 people in the Pfizer trials, literally none of them died of covid OR the vaccine, vs 15 covid deaths in the unvaccinated control group. And VAERS is just a safety net in case something small-but serious slips through the statistical power of a full scientific study (as happened with the J&J vaccine).
    - h2odragon 5y ago
      Perhaps you haven't seen this one yet: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hos... Someone else summarized it as "Being in the hospital with covid is not the same as being in the hospital because of covid"
dlangille 5y ago
YEAH, as others have said, there is no verification of VAERS. Anyone can submit.
- borplk 5y ago
  Those reports that have a permanent VAERS number assigned are one-by-one manually verified by contacting and discussing the report with the person that submitted it. VAERS is not an internet comment box.

by borplk 5y ago

glial 5y ago

As far as I can tell, that's misinformation. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid19-vaers-idUSL1N2PB2H3 https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid19-vaers-idUS... > According to CDC guidance listed on its page reporting adverse events from COVID-19 vaccines, seen here , there have been 6,340 reports of death (0.0019%) recorded from December 14, 2020, to July 26, 2021 "among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine." It is important to note that the "FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it is unclear whether the vaccine was the cause.” Please correct me if I'm wrong.

borplk 5y ago
Firstly these "fact check" websites, including Reuters have become a joke. They clearly have an agenda and many also have conflicts of interest. They pretend that just because they call themselves "fact checkers" it automatically makes everything they say true. They have nameless faceless self-proclaimed "experts" that often make a straw man and "fact check" the straw man as false and call it a day. And a naive person just googles a few keywords, sees the - usually first link - "Fact-check: that thing you were told is totally wrong" article and thinks "Hah! Fact checkers say it's false! Debunked misinformation again!" Big pharma has billions of dollars of interests to protect. The average so called "anti vax" person has nothing to gain or lose from whether other people do or don't take a vaccine. So a rational person should not so easily accept the commercial propaganda pushed by these companies. Secondly health care professionals submit the report when they have reason to believe that it is a "vaccine adverse event". Otherwise the "event" is not relevant, the person will not even consider or bother to make the report to begin with. "even if it is unclear whether the vaccine was the cause" part is a technicality because yes at the time they are submitting it "is not clear" if vaccine is indeed the cause and it is to be investigated. They will then contact the person that submitted it and if it's a valid report they will assign a permanent number to the report. There are many obstacles to submitting the report. And since it is voluntary it is under counting. In Australia 9 deaths are officially accepted as vaccine-related. Again unlike with covid they do anything they can to keep this number low. It is a minimum. I don't claim to know what the actual number is but it absolutely positively is not ZERO.

grey413 5y ago

VAERS reports can (and should) be done for any death following vaccination, whether or not anyone thinks that death was vaccine-related. There's no evidence that the "13k+ COVID-19 vaccine related deaths" are anything of the sort; VEARS is simply not the sort of scientific study that can provide that sort of evidence. VEARS can throw up red flags for safety halts and further study (as happened with the Johnson and Johnson vaccine), but that's it. It's definitely, definitely not some gotcha data-point for you to wave around to attack the vaccines as unsafe.

h2odragon 5y ago
"COVID Cases" turns out to be anyone with covid who might be in the hospital for anything else. COVID deaths have included people "greedily" the same way. Shouldn't the vaccine be counted by the same standards and the same statistical methods used?
- grey413 5y ago
  Comparing Covid statistics to VAERS is comparing apples to oranges. I completely reject your premise that the covid statistics are shoddy. It's easy to confirm a covid case. You do a PCR test, and if you get a positive back it's covid, end of story. It's admittedly a bit trickier to attribute a covid death... but not really. If a covid patient dies of a heart attack, it could be bad luck, or it could be the disease that coagulates its victims' blood. But usually it's pretty obvious. Someone dying of pneumonia and/or a cytokine storm isn't exactly subtle. There's nothing in the overall death statistics that suggest that the obvious covid deaths are anything but the obvious. By comparison, establishing a casual connection between a vaccine and any adverse side effects is incredibly difficult, simply because they're so rare. Of the 44000 people in the Pfizer trials, literally none of them died of covid OR the vaccine, vs 15 covid deaths in the unvaccinated control group. And VAERS is just a safety net in case something small-but serious slips through the statistical power of a full scientific study (as happened with the J&J vaccine).
  - h2odragon 5y ago
    Perhaps you haven't seen this one yet: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hos... Someone else summarized it as "Being in the hospital with covid is not the same as being in the hospital because of covid"

dlangille 5y ago

YEAH, as others have said, there is no verification of VAERS. Anyone can submit.

borplk 5y ago
Those reports that have a permanent VAERS number assigned are one-by-one manually verified by contacting and discussing the report with the person that submitted it. VAERS is not an internet comment box.