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I wish I could say that if authorities hadn't lied about, say, masks or this stuff with natural immunity, things would gone a lot better and people would have b

• errantmind 5y ago
  Lying and partisanship got us to where we are now. The skepticism that resulted from the lies has been re-targetted to the vaccine itself. I'm not sure how the policy makers didn't see this coming beforehand.
  • rootusrootus 5y ago
    > skepticism that resulted from the lies Let's be honest, please. The skepticism preceded the lies. The lies, in as much as they actually exist, are just being used as post-hoc rationalization.
    • rayiner 5y ago
      Vaccination rates were equal between democrats and Republicans as late as the end of April.
      • endymi0n 5y ago
        This is as false at it can get: https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/poll-finds-startling-difference-vaccinations-among-us-republicans-and-democrats https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/poll-finds-startli...
        • SamReidHughes 5y ago
          Comment dated April, article dated July.
          • rayiner 5y ago
            Yes: https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/the-red-blue-divide-in-covid-19-vaccination-rates/ https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/the-red-blue-divide-in-covi... As of April 22, the vaccination rates between the parties was almost identical. The differential in vaccination rates is largely about people under 65. If you look at over 65 rates red states and blue states are much closer. 88.4% of people over 65 in Kansas are fully vaccinated. That’s higher than California, Illinois, and New York.
            • rootusrootus 5y ago
              I've noticed that as the risk becomes too high to ignore, people do finally put their politics aside when they have a reasonable expectation that their life actually does ride on the decision.
              • rayiner 5y ago
                I would probably frame that the opposite way. People under 65 have a pretty low risk of COVID. Less than 20% of COVID deaths are for people under 65, and only 3% are people under 45. Liberal politics might convince a young, healthy 35 year old to get vaccinated out of concern for others. Geography also matters. There is a visceral awareness of being exposed to others’ germs in a place like NYC that’s simply absent in Iowa or Utah. A guy who takes a bus to work every day is going to be acutely aware of transmission risks in a way that a guy who drives to work every day won’t.
                • random314 5y ago
                  The 65-115 year old category is too big to compare with other age deciles. For representative comparison deaths in 65-75 age group is 144K and 50-65 age group is 106K, they are a comparable risk group[1]. In my urban county of 2M whites in 50-64 have the lowest vaccination rate in the 60s. Asians have a 95% vaccination rate in the same age group. The simple fact that Republican dominated counties have their beds and ICUs overflowing[2] after wide vaccine availability while congested New York does not paints a very clear picture that it is not liberal politics that is causing pandemic issues, but conservative politics. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/19/us/alabama-icu-shortage.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/19/us/alabama-icu-shortage.h...
      • tomjakubowski 5y ago
        > end of April What's so special about vaccination rates in April? By late August this NBC poll shows a huge gap. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/nbc-news-poll-shows-demographic-breakdown-vaccinated-u-s-n1277514 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/nbc-news-pol... Already vaccinated: - Democrats: 88 percent - Republicans: 55 percent - Biden voters in 2020 general election: 91 percent - Trump voters in 2020 general election: 50 percent Another analysis from September comparing electoral results and vaccination rates by county shows the same trend. https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/the-red-blue-divide-in-covid-19-vaccination-rates/ https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/the-red-blue-divide-in-covi...
    • Clubber 5y ago
      The lies have been coming for decades, these are just new lies.
    • TheBlight 5y ago
      The first vocal skeptics were Kamala Harris and Joe Biden back when they were referred to as the Trump vaccines.
      • michaelmrose 5y ago
        Harris: If doctors say I should take it I'll be the first in line but if Donald Trumps says I should take it I won't take it. What she wanted is what everyone should want is for the vaccine to be vetted. When it was she took it. She expressed doubt not in medical science, not in the vaccine, but in the claims of Donald Trump.
        • TheBlight 5y ago
          That would maybe be a passing defense if you legitimately thought Donald Trump created the vaccines by himself and they weren't a product from Pfizer etc.
          • MereInterest 5y ago
            With the history that Trump had for firing people who did follow unreasonable orders (e.g. Rod Rosenstein), it becomes entirely plausible that he would fire any FDA head who did not support a vaccine, regardless of the science behind them. As things turned out, the studies did support the vaccine, but it was not unreasonable to draw a distinction between unbiased experts and experts under threat of firing.
          • BHSPitMonkey 5y ago
            The vaccines didn't exist at that point; We didn't know how effective or safe they would turn out to be (at least in their first iteration), so obviously it would have been ridiculous to commit blindly to taking them. Once trial results were released, we learned that they're highly effective and that risks of bad reactions are exceedingly rare (especially when compared to the effects of the virus itself).
      • cma 5y ago
        Probably from when Trump said he was going to get the vaccine out early, a couple days before the election: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/30/white-house-aide-says-trumps-vaccine-by-election-day-promise-was-arbitrary-433670 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/30/white-house-aide-sa...
• rootusrootus 5y ago
  > I wish I could say that if authorities hadn't lied about, say, masks or this stuff with natural immunity, things would gone a lot better and people would have behaved much more rationally about COVID, but I don't think that's true. I agree. For someone whose threshold of 'did the authorities lie about masks' is one cherry-picked example, there was never any hope. They were absolutely going to find someone to confirm their already-existing beliefs.
  • lmm 5y ago
    Nonsense. There's such a thing as people on the margin. On any binary issue most pieces of evidence "won't matter" to most people, in that that one piece of evidence is unlikely to be the one that "flips" the person, but that doesn't mean people are ignoring the evidence - it's just that most of the time any given piece of evidence is the difference between 99% believing and 98% believing rather than the difference between 50% believing and 49% believing.
  • tomp 5y ago
    There’s a whole list of lies from the pst 19 months. - There is no pandemic” - “Masks don’t work” - “Border closures are racist” - “3 weeks to stop the spread” - “The virus definitely didn’t come from a lab” - “Antibodies only last 3 months” - “There will be no vaccine passports” - “We’re not manipulating COVID data” - “Vaccines are 100% safe” - “Lockdowns are for your own safety” - “Don’t take drugs meant for horses” - “Measures are guided by science” - “We’re all in this together” - “If you get vaccinated you’ll get your freedom back”
• SavantIdiot 5y ago
  > if authorities hadn't lied about, say, masks or this stuff When did authorities lie? The position on masks changed over time as data was acquired. Unless you mean when the FDA/CDC was worried about a run on masks, which they were right about. But I think ascribing a malicious intent to that learning process is disingenuous. The only people that have made literally malicious claims have been people on the far-right, which unfortunately are some authorities so I guess you're right about Trump and his bootlicks who intentionally lied for personal gain. And continue to do so.
  • borplk 5y ago
    They lied about masks. It's plain and simple. The science on masks is not exactly new or bleeding edge. You have to be unbelievably naive to accept that "the position changed".
    • cma 5y ago
      They were usually very careful in the wording, saying no evidence outside of a medical setting for this type of virus. And mentioned it usually insane breath as conserving masks for medical workers. It was manipulative and steering behavior, but in most cases I've seen not lying.
      • cma 5y ago
        *in the same breath
    • SavantIdiot 5y ago
      > You have to be unbelievably naive to accept that "the position changed". ...or have a functioning knowledge of science. Your trail of anti-vax nonsense doesn't really serve you well in this modality.
    • jonnycomputer 5y ago
      What specifically was the lie told. This is what I'm confused about. There was a point where it wasn't believed that asymptomatic infection was likely. In that case, wearing masks is less beneficial.
• tommymachine 5y ago
  And that whole side of your family is dead, right?
  • jowday 5y ago
    No, but we had to put off a lot of medical procedures my grandparents needed done because the hospital beds were so full that they were airlifting people to other states. We also had to move them out of the assisted living facility they were in and provide 24/7 care because the facility started allowing visitors without any screenings.