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> proudly announcing their beliefs and intentions They're not hiding their beliefs, but they are hiding their intentions. When they join the military they take

> proudly announcing their beliefs and intentions They're not hiding their beliefs, but they are hiding their intentions. When they join the military they take oaths to defend the constitution, which includes separation of church and state. They are strictly forbidden from allowing their religion to affect performance of their duties. When religious groups are actively recruiting people to join the military with prior intent to violate their oaths and regulations, that's still a Very Bad Thing. The fact that the secrecy is not total seems like exactly the kind of sea-lioning quibble I predicted. > considering there are thousands if not tens of thousands A little research shows that there are just over 10,000 LTCs in the Army, which is the largest branch so probably fewer in each of the others. But this has gone much higher than that. Another example is Stanley McChrystal, a four star general (there are only 43 of those in the army right now) and director of Special Forces Command, who resigned to avoid being formally charged with insubordination. Do you think his example helped or hurt wrt other officers committing similar acts of insubordination? That it was good or bad for military discipline and national security? > not that unusual, or worrying, that there’s public insubordination by a few. That's insane. The military runs on discipline. It's one of its most important, almost defining, features. Yes, this is surprising. There have been very few cases in my lifetime. Yes, it's worrying for a senior officer not only to be insubordinate but to incite others to follow them into mutiny/insurrection. Dismissing it as though military service were no different than being in a chess club is absurd.

MichaelZuo 5y ago
‘ There have been very few cases in my lifetime.’ There ought not to be any cases in the ideal world. But of course given human nature, etc., a small rate, say a 0.1% insubordination rate seems quite reasonable. (which even still may be too ambitious unless the new recruits can maintain a very noble character) There will always be people with less than virtuous intentions climbing up the ranks at any given point in time, at any given organization. So the military certainly seems to be doing better at separating the wheat from the chaff than the federal bureaucracy or any private organization even 1/10 as large.

MichaelZuo 5y ago

‘ There have been very few cases in my lifetime.’ There ought not to be any cases in the ideal world. But of course given human nature, etc., a small rate, say a 0.1% insubordination rate seems quite reasonable. (which even still may be too ambitious unless the new recruits can maintain a very noble character) There will always be people with less than virtuous intentions climbing up the ranks at any given point in time, at any given organization. So the military certainly seems to be doing better at separating the wheat from the chaff than the federal bureaucracy or any private organization even 1/10 as large.