5 ms·

What would be really cool and useful would be an open source bedside (ICU/OR) monitor. RPi would probably be a good base, I guess...

by rscho 5y ago

maxwellwhite 5y ago
Let’s do it!
snapetom 5y ago
Stuff like this is always cool and gee whiz, but it will never muster in the US that I know of, and I suspect most developed countries. Anything on the bedside, especially in ICU, has to be examined by the FDA to the point where they want to know exactly what the chemical composition of parts are. If there's a risk of things releasing fumes that might be dangerous for a sick patient if the device gets too warm, they'll ding it. Diagnostic software powering these devices are scrutinized by the FDA, too.
- rscho 5y ago
  Of course it would never do in developed countries! For context, I work with such monitors daily in a (very) rich country. I was thinking of the most backwater context you could still find use for it. Some parts of Africa, for instance.
- jbotz 5y ago
  Ah yes, in the US they can't occur the risk of "fumes" from an affordable electronic device, that's why they need to charge people a year's income for a minor emergency room visit. Never mind the fact that for millions in the US the air is toxic, the water is full of lead, and the food full of agro-toxins. But they are lucky, because the FDA makes sure medical devices don't release any accidental fumes and they only cost 2 or 3 magnitudes more than they need to.
junon 5y ago
No way. Medical devices need very strong guarantees. RaspPi does not offer those. You want a cheap RTSoC.
- rscho 5y ago
  But do those include graphical capabilities, USB connectivity, jack for alim, etc. all-in-one and for a few bucks? I am aware medical devices should provide guarantees, but a smaller guarantee is still better than none at all, innit? For context, in many countries people are simply left to die in the most atrocious ways if they cannot afford care. You should see how african people react when they're admitted to the hospital, even in developed countries.
  - GravitasFailure 5y ago
    > but a smaller guarantee is still better than none at all, innit? Raspberry Pi comes with no guarantees at all and has well documented problems with flaky power and burning out SD cards. It works great for the hobbyist/learning system that it was designed for and might even be good enough for the blood testing system in the article, but active monitoring for intensive care? Just...no.
    - rscho 5y ago
      I'm no expert in this field and was genuinely asking, but if someone knows of better things then please go for it!
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - GravitasFailure 5y ago
        It's certainly a fair question. I don't work in medical devices, but know people that have, and the problem for medical hardware has two steps: One, build something that won't kill the patient, and then step two is proving that you're correct about step one. Step two is the expensive bit.
      - ezconnect 5y ago
        The raspberry pi will be a very capable CPU for a medical monitoring. The issue is the sensor and the power unit. Isolation is very important and the sensor reading needs to be correct.
antattack 5y ago
I suppose a parallel would be a Mars Helicopter based on off the shelf components vs making one of radiation hardened components. It may work, and it may work very well in fact. However, if you can afford it - you'd opt for something with more reliability and consistency.
- ldiracdelta 5y ago
  In economics, the most important question is "as compared to what?" You might be able to afford a gold plated system designed with 15-9's of reliability, but do you want to work 10 hours week to afford that system? On the margin, do you want to have a 10% smaller house to pay for that level of medical awesomeness?
rramadass 5y ago
Not Open Source but relatively cheap : https://shberrymed.com/products/patient-monitor-pm6100 https://shberrymed.com/products/patient-monitor-pm6100 A company called "Anidra" (Australia + India) is offering the full package (HW based on the PM6100 and cloud based Monitoring SW) both for Hospital and Home use: http://www.anidra.com.au/ http://www.anidra.com.au/ and https://www.anidra.in/ https://www.anidra.in/
- programmer_dude 5y ago
  Weird choice of name Anidra in Hindi means sleeplessness. Nidra is sleep, anidra is its opposite. On second thought, I think they are probably implying their devices (or they themselves) do not sleep.

What would be really cool and useful would be an open source bedside (ICU/OR) monitor. RPi would probably be a good base, I guess...

by rscho 5y ago

What would be really cool and useful would be an open source bedside (ICU/OR) monitor. RPi would probably be a good base, I guess...

maxwellwhite 5y ago

Let’s do it!

snapetom 5y ago

Stuff like this is always cool and gee whiz, but it will never muster in the US that I know of, and I suspect most developed countries. Anything on the bedside, especially in ICU, has to be examined by the FDA to the point where they want to know exactly what the chemical composition of parts are. If there's a risk of things releasing fumes that might be dangerous for a sick patient if the device gets too warm, they'll ding it. Diagnostic software powering these devices are scrutinized by the FDA, too.

rscho 5y ago
Of course it would never do in developed countries! For context, I work with such monitors daily in a (very) rich country. I was thinking of the most backwater context you could still find use for it. Some parts of Africa, for instance.
jbotz 5y ago
Ah yes, in the US they can't occur the risk of "fumes" from an affordable electronic device, that's why they need to charge people a year's income for a minor emergency room visit. Never mind the fact that for millions in the US the air is toxic, the water is full of lead, and the food full of agro-toxins. But they are lucky, because the FDA makes sure medical devices don't release any accidental fumes and they only cost 2 or 3 magnitudes more than they need to.

junon 5y ago

No way. Medical devices need very strong guarantees. RaspPi does not offer those. You want a cheap RTSoC.

rscho 5y ago
But do those include graphical capabilities, USB connectivity, jack for alim, etc. all-in-one and for a few bucks? I am aware medical devices should provide guarantees, but a smaller guarantee is still better than none at all, innit? For context, in many countries people are simply left to die in the most atrocious ways if they cannot afford care. You should see how african people react when they're admitted to the hospital, even in developed countries.
- GravitasFailure 5y ago
  > but a smaller guarantee is still better than none at all, innit? Raspberry Pi comes with no guarantees at all and has well documented problems with flaky power and burning out SD cards. It works great for the hobbyist/learning system that it was designed for and might even be good enough for the blood testing system in the article, but active monitoring for intensive care? Just...no.
  - rscho 5y ago
    I'm no expert in this field and was genuinely asking, but if someone knows of better things then please go for it!
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - GravitasFailure 5y ago
      It's certainly a fair question. I don't work in medical devices, but know people that have, and the problem for medical hardware has two steps: One, build something that won't kill the patient, and then step two is proving that you're correct about step one. Step two is the expensive bit.
    - ezconnect 5y ago
      The raspberry pi will be a very capable CPU for a medical monitoring. The issue is the sensor and the power unit. Isolation is very important and the sensor reading needs to be correct.

antattack 5y ago

I suppose a parallel would be a Mars Helicopter based on off the shelf components vs making one of radiation hardened components. It may work, and it may work very well in fact. However, if you can afford it - you'd opt for something with more reliability and consistency.

ldiracdelta 5y ago
In economics, the most important question is "as compared to what?" You might be able to afford a gold plated system designed with 15-9's of reliability, but do you want to work 10 hours week to afford that system? On the margin, do you want to have a 10% smaller house to pay for that level of medical awesomeness?

rramadass 5y ago

Not Open Source but relatively cheap : https://shberrymed.com/products/patient-monitor-pm6100 https://shberrymed.com/products/patient-monitor-pm6100 A company called "Anidra" (Australia + India) is offering the full package (HW based on the PM6100 and cloud based Monitoring SW) both for Hospital and Home use: http://www.anidra.com.au/ http://www.anidra.com.au/ and https://www.anidra.in/ https://www.anidra.in/

programmer_dude 5y ago
Weird choice of name Anidra in Hindi means sleeplessness. Nidra is sleep, anidra is its opposite. On second thought, I think they are probably implying their devices (or they themselves) do not sleep.