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What a disappointing event: a bunch of iterative updates. I also find it absolutely incredible that Apple decided to mention privacy during the event. I think

What a disappointing event: a bunch of iterative updates. I also find it absolutely incredible that Apple decided to mention privacy during the event. I think we're progressing into Apple's Ballmer era, if we weren't there already.

ksml 5y ago
They seemed like strong iterative updates to me? I also appreciate all speech recognition being done on-device
axg11 5y ago
What would you improve about the iPhone or iPad? I think these products are just mature and there is very little to improve other than iterative updates. The true test of whether Apple has entered their Ballmer era will be if they fail to launch a new product category in the next 2-3 years.
- sildur 5y ago
  - USB-c port - Act as wireless charger - Dual SIM - Under-screen fingerprint reader - Maybe FM radio - Headphones socket
  - axg11 5y ago
    These are all great iterative features, but no more than that.
  - danieldk 5y ago
    - Dual SIM iPhones are Dual SIM. You can use a physical SIM + and eSIM. I have used my iPhone with two different plans/phone numbers for a while.
    - dan-robertson 5y ago
      In China they sell iPhones that take two physical SIM cards.
    - akmarinov 5y ago
      iPhone 13 is now triple SIM, you get two eSIM and 1 physical
  - poulsbohemian 5y ago
    > Maybe FM radio I get why a few years ago there was a push for this, but in this era, why? There are so many music / news / talk streaming options that traditional radio might as well be dead. You turn on the sports radio shows and they are deliberately advertising and directing you to their podcast over their radio show.
    - sildur 5y ago
      Because internet is slow, spotty, and 4G eats a lot of battery. FM radio is lightweight and instantaneous.
- gigel82 5y ago
  USB-C charging across the line would've been nice (the iPads are already on board with this generation it seems). They could also do more innovation on the camera notch (20% smaller is not enough), I'd expect them to solve the under-display camera problem by now given their expertise and funding.
- kilroy123 5y ago
  Not OP but I will gladly tell you what _I_ would Improve. 1) Drop the photo scanning BS. 2) Add Touch ID back. 3) Just call it what it is. It's an iPhone 12S. 4) USB-C 5) Put a charger back in the box.
  - lovich 5y ago
    How are those not just iterative changes though. Nothing in that list is innovative
    - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
      Paradoxically, I'd consider bringing the headphone jack back the most revolutionary change. It would give a clear message, "We heard our customers, we had been wrong, so now we are doing the right thing." Never gonna happen, though.
      - jdminhbg 5y ago
        Where is the evidence that customers want it back?
  - jereees 5y ago
    Please don’t put a charger back in the box, at least not by default. While we are at it why not take off the cost of the charger from the price?
- rsanek 5y ago
  One painfully obvious thing would be to get rid of insane notch / forehead. While they're at it, implement an under-display front-facing camera so we can have 100% screen-to-body ratio. Fair that this is not really revolutionary (Samsung has had better screen-to-body for forever) but to me it was a surprising miss from Apple (yet again; maybe I should stop being surprised).
afavour 5y ago
> What a disappointing event: a bunch of iterative updates. Is that not the pattern Apple has followed since the release of the original iPhone? This is an "off" year, the device would have been called the 12S but they stopped that pattern a while back.
- danieldk 5y ago
  Is that not the pattern Apple has followed since the release of the original iPhone? This is an "off" year, the device would have been called the 12S but they stopped that pattern a while back. This is a mischaracterization of the S models. Even though the non-S models had bigger design changes, the S models were often large technological leaps: - 4S: single -> dual core - 5S: first 64-bit iPhone, first Touch ID model - 6S: twice as much memory, 70% faster CPU than the 6. In contrast to the 6 still supported, probably because it has so much headroom. Also 3D Touch (though it ultimately failed).
  - afavour 5y ago
    IMO it’s not much of a mischaracterisation. Apple has always led with features, not tech specs. New features and designs tended to come one year with performance improvements the next. That feels very much iterative to me.
- nerfhammer 5y ago
  I also wonder if the global chip shortage was putting pressure against them doing anything too ambitious
  - raydev 5y ago
    I think another commenter got it right. This is a refinement year anyway. If anything, it's the screen tech that could be holding them back, there's supply constraints in that chain as well. I'm genuinely suprised we even got variable refresh rate; Apple clearly had much higher standards for it or they were concerned they couldn't meet demand, otherwise it should have shipped 2 years ago.
theshrike79 5y ago
Many small steps make one big step. iPhone releases haven't been for the people who get a new one every year for ages. They are for the ones whose phone is so old that the latest iOS stopped supporting it. Think about the amazing leap you get from an iPhone 6 to iPhone 13? That's not "iterative", it's damn revolutionary.
- Lamad123 5y ago
  The only thing I see from iphone 8 to whatever this is, is that ugly notch and owl camera!!
  - theshrike79 5y ago
    As someone who moved from an 8 to an XS, you'll actually notice the notch for the first day or so. After that you just won't care and barely notice it.
- glogla 5y ago
  I don't know about that. iPhone 6 had headphone connector, reasonable size and touchid. It had headphones and charger bundled in, for $650 at launch. iPhone 13 definitely has better camera, display and performance, and it is bit more water resistant and has wireless charging. But it's larger, missing headphone connector, it has faceid (which never works in pandemic world due to masks), has no headphones or charger in the box, and cost $1000 at launch. So there definitely are improvements (the quality of life from wireless charging, nicer screen and camera) but it comes at almost twice the cost and a lot of stupid choices like faceid. For people not interested in performance and camera, the iPhone 13 can almost seem worse.
  - xu_ituairo 5y ago
    iPhone 13 starts at $699 for the mini and $799 for the non-mini, not $1000.
  - theshrike79 5y ago
    > has no headphones or charger in the box I've got so fucking many wired Apple headphones and chargers I don't know what to do with them all. I'm glad they're not bundling them any more. I use an Anker charger and cable anyway.
daemoon 5y ago
If it ain't broke don't fi it or something like that.
threatofrain 5y ago
Apple's privacy innovations are unique, and I wonder whether Google will follow along. With Apple relay and mail protection you have TOR lite for grandma when browsing or using mail.
tedunangst 5y ago
Yeah, I'd be so much happier if Apple switched to the Intel model and released the exact same product, only updating the part number.
hbn 5y ago
I'm not defending the CSAM stuff at all because I hate it as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't say Apple is at a particularly worse area in the average consumer's mindspace than in the past. In recent years they've dealt with some of the pain-points of iOS, e.g. starting to allow default apps, adding an app drawer so you don't need to have every app on your homescreen, etc. And especially if we want to talk Macs, they recently released a batch of computers with their own silicon that are being rave-reviewed in terms of performance and battery life, and they're backtracking on the design flaws from their last era of laptops (getting rid of the butterfly keyboard that had a pathetic failure rate, giving up on the touchbar, rumors of potentially adding more I/O back, etc).
bluetomcat 5y ago
The whole presentation felt like a video version of some kind of a lifestyle magazine. Like, here's some devices plus some apps and services to suit your dynamic everyday lifestyle. The surrounding sceneries and the style of the presentation also gave a very "post-covid" feel in the sense that we hardly ever saw more than a few people on a single frame.
meepmorp 5y ago
It's the M1 effect! Most of Apple's updates are boring iterations on previous versions. Periodically, they'll come out with something that captures people's imagination for a while, then it's back to predicting the end of Innovator Apple because whatever is happening now doesn't match the excitement of the big shift. Edit: I postulate that the disappointment effect crosses product lines
Spooky23 5y ago
Usually they tick tock unless they missed the mark. With the supply chain situation being what it is, essentially extending the 12 for a year is the smart move. They’ve already slipped the laptops to the point that they missed back to school and likely Christmas.

ksml 5y ago

They seemed like strong iterative updates to me? I also appreciate all speech recognition being done on-device

axg11 5y ago

What would you improve about the iPhone or iPad? I think these products are just mature and there is very little to improve other than iterative updates. The true test of whether Apple has entered their Ballmer era will be if they fail to launch a new product category in the next 2-3 years.

sildur 5y ago
- USB-c port - Act as wireless charger - Dual SIM - Under-screen fingerprint reader - Maybe FM radio - Headphones socket
- axg11 5y ago
  These are all great iterative features, but no more than that.
- danieldk 5y ago
  - Dual SIM iPhones are Dual SIM. You can use a physical SIM + and eSIM. I have used my iPhone with two different plans/phone numbers for a while.
  - dan-robertson 5y ago
    In China they sell iPhones that take two physical SIM cards.
  - akmarinov 5y ago
    iPhone 13 is now triple SIM, you get two eSIM and 1 physical
- poulsbohemian 5y ago
  > Maybe FM radio I get why a few years ago there was a push for this, but in this era, why? There are so many music / news / talk streaming options that traditional radio might as well be dead. You turn on the sports radio shows and they are deliberately advertising and directing you to their podcast over their radio show.
  - sildur 5y ago
    Because internet is slow, spotty, and 4G eats a lot of battery. FM radio is lightweight and instantaneous.
gigel82 5y ago
USB-C charging across the line would've been nice (the iPads are already on board with this generation it seems). They could also do more innovation on the camera notch (20% smaller is not enough), I'd expect them to solve the under-display camera problem by now given their expertise and funding.
kilroy123 5y ago
Not OP but I will gladly tell you what _I_ would Improve. 1) Drop the photo scanning BS. 2) Add Touch ID back. 3) Just call it what it is. It's an iPhone 12S. 4) USB-C 5) Put a charger back in the box.
- lovich 5y ago
  How are those not just iterative changes though. Nothing in that list is innovative
  - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
    Paradoxically, I'd consider bringing the headphone jack back the most revolutionary change. It would give a clear message, "We heard our customers, we had been wrong, so now we are doing the right thing." Never gonna happen, though.
    - jdminhbg 5y ago
      Where is the evidence that customers want it back?
- jereees 5y ago
  Please don’t put a charger back in the box, at least not by default. While we are at it why not take off the cost of the charger from the price?
rsanek 5y ago
One painfully obvious thing would be to get rid of insane notch / forehead. While they're at it, implement an under-display front-facing camera so we can have 100% screen-to-body ratio. Fair that this is not really revolutionary (Samsung has had better screen-to-body for forever) but to me it was a surprising miss from Apple (yet again; maybe I should stop being surprised).

afavour 5y ago

> What a disappointing event: a bunch of iterative updates. Is that not the pattern Apple has followed since the release of the original iPhone? This is an "off" year, the device would have been called the 12S but they stopped that pattern a while back.

danieldk 5y ago
Is that not the pattern Apple has followed since the release of the original iPhone? This is an "off" year, the device would have been called the 12S but they stopped that pattern a while back. This is a mischaracterization of the S models. Even though the non-S models had bigger design changes, the S models were often large technological leaps: - 4S: single -> dual core - 5S: first 64-bit iPhone, first Touch ID model - 6S: twice as much memory, 70% faster CPU than the 6. In contrast to the 6 still supported, probably because it has so much headroom. Also 3D Touch (though it ultimately failed).
- afavour 5y ago
  IMO it’s not much of a mischaracterisation. Apple has always led with features, not tech specs. New features and designs tended to come one year with performance improvements the next. That feels very much iterative to me.
nerfhammer 5y ago
I also wonder if the global chip shortage was putting pressure against them doing anything too ambitious
- raydev 5y ago
  I think another commenter got it right. This is a refinement year anyway. If anything, it's the screen tech that could be holding them back, there's supply constraints in that chain as well. I'm genuinely suprised we even got variable refresh rate; Apple clearly had much higher standards for it or they were concerned they couldn't meet demand, otherwise it should have shipped 2 years ago.

theshrike79 5y ago

Many small steps make one big step. iPhone releases haven't been for the people who get a new one every year for ages. They are for the ones whose phone is so old that the latest iOS stopped supporting it. Think about the amazing leap you get from an iPhone 6 to iPhone 13? That's not "iterative", it's damn revolutionary.

Lamad123 5y ago
The only thing I see from iphone 8 to whatever this is, is that ugly notch and owl camera!!
- theshrike79 5y ago
  As someone who moved from an 8 to an XS, you'll actually notice the notch for the first day or so. After that you just won't care and barely notice it.
glogla 5y ago
I don't know about that. iPhone 6 had headphone connector, reasonable size and touchid. It had headphones and charger bundled in, for $650 at launch. iPhone 13 definitely has better camera, display and performance, and it is bit more water resistant and has wireless charging. But it's larger, missing headphone connector, it has faceid (which never works in pandemic world due to masks), has no headphones or charger in the box, and cost $1000 at launch. So there definitely are improvements (the quality of life from wireless charging, nicer screen and camera) but it comes at almost twice the cost and a lot of stupid choices like faceid. For people not interested in performance and camera, the iPhone 13 can almost seem worse.
- xu_ituairo 5y ago
  iPhone 13 starts at $699 for the mini and $799 for the non-mini, not $1000.
- theshrike79 5y ago
  > has no headphones or charger in the box I've got so fucking many wired Apple headphones and chargers I don't know what to do with them all. I'm glad they're not bundling them any more. I use an Anker charger and cable anyway.

daemoon 5y ago

If it ain't broke don't fi it or something like that.

threatofrain 5y ago

Apple's privacy innovations are unique, and I wonder whether Google will follow along. With Apple relay and mail protection you have TOR lite for grandma when browsing or using mail.

tedunangst 5y ago

Yeah, I'd be so much happier if Apple switched to the Intel model and released the exact same product, only updating the part number.

hbn 5y ago

I'm not defending the CSAM stuff at all because I hate it as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't say Apple is at a particularly worse area in the average consumer's mindspace than in the past. In recent years they've dealt with some of the pain-points of iOS, e.g. starting to allow default apps, adding an app drawer so you don't need to have every app on your homescreen, etc. And especially if we want to talk Macs, they recently released a batch of computers with their own silicon that are being rave-reviewed in terms of performance and battery life, and they're backtracking on the design flaws from their last era of laptops (getting rid of the butterfly keyboard that had a pathetic failure rate, giving up on the touchbar, rumors of potentially adding more I/O back, etc).

bluetomcat 5y ago

The whole presentation felt like a video version of some kind of a lifestyle magazine. Like, here's some devices plus some apps and services to suit your dynamic everyday lifestyle. The surrounding sceneries and the style of the presentation also gave a very "post-covid" feel in the sense that we hardly ever saw more than a few people on a single frame.

meepmorp 5y ago

It's the M1 effect! Most of Apple's updates are boring iterations on previous versions. Periodically, they'll come out with something that captures people's imagination for a while, then it's back to predicting the end of Innovator Apple because whatever is happening now doesn't match the excitement of the big shift. Edit: I postulate that the disappointment effect crosses product lines

Spooky23 5y ago

Usually they tick tock unless they missed the mark. With the supply chain situation being what it is, essentially extending the 12 for a year is the smart move. They’ve already slipped the laptops to the point that they missed back to school and likely Christmas.