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Sometimes the alternative isn't much better, so instead of trying to punish myself and get a pixel, degoogle everything, etc. I voted with my wallet. Do I just

Sometimes the alternative isn't much better, so instead of trying to punish myself and get a pixel, degoogle everything, etc. I voted with my wallet. Do I just keep my iPhone and let them get away with the CSAM on device scanning? I chose not to, even if the privacy is worse on android. Some may think that's ass backwards, but it was a solution for my beliefs.

runjake 5y ago
It does seem ass backwards. Google scans your content for CSAM on their servers. And they scan your content for demographic and advertising data and god knows what else. I do not see your logic here. It appears to be an ill-decided knee-jerk reaction.
- chippiewill 5y ago
  It's perplexing really. It's a bit like saying you don't like how the government spies on you, so you're moving to China.
- cageface 5y ago
  The difference is Android gives you options. If you’re locked into iOS you’ve got no recourse if you disagree with Apple’s decisions.
  - top_sigrid 5y ago
    So what's the option of Google not scanning every content you have on their devices (I mean they even scan all your emails in Gmail)? With Apple's CSAM you have an actual option which is just to not use their iCloud photo sharing.
- post_break 5y ago
  What content? I don't upload any photos to Google.
  - vbezhenar 5y ago
    Apple promised not to scan your photos with disabled iCloud. I don’t trust them to hold that promise, but may be you will.
    - post_break 5y ago
      I think you replied to the wrong comment, I sold my iPhone and switched to Android.
  - runjake 5y ago
    Presumably you're using Android with the Google frameworks installed, so it's sending all kinds of telemetry, usage, and location data to Google. You can confirm this with something like Charles proxy. Or you may be one of the rare breed of people who can use a "de-Googled" Android distribution, such as CalyxOS, for over a month before giving up. Time will tell, I suppose.
    - jmnicolas 5y ago
      I'm on GrapheneOS since last December. Yes it's tough, but before that I had come to resent my phone and wondering what it was doing in the background.
      - runjake 5y ago
        I am sincerely jealous of your tolerance skills. I'd love to have the tolerance to jump to a de-Googled Android phone and bypass FAANG's walled garden. I've tried many times.
        7v3x3n3sem9vv 5y ago
        What didn't you like? Been using LineageOS on an old OnePlus I had and I'm enjoying it the last few months. Especially knowing it's not doing anything weird without my approval.
- lrae 5y ago
  > Google scans your content for CSAM on their servers. How does their content get on google's servers? And last time I checked, there was no content-scanning feature implemented in Android (and especially not in Graphene, Calyx, Lineage, or what ever.)
  - theshrike79 5y ago
    Nothing was going to get scanned on iOS either, unless you had "upload to Apple servers" enabled...
    - lrae 5y ago
      Did you read the comment I replied to? And read the second part of my comment? Not sure what your commment has to do with anything. It's all good though, I'm still using an iPhone. But might switch, especially with so many people in HN comments telling me that Android would scan all my data and send it to Google without being able to substantiate that claim.
    - n8cpdx 5y ago
      *unless one of the iOS updates surreptitiously re-enabled "upload to Apple servers" as they are notorious for doing...
      - djrogers 5y ago
        Citation? As far as I’m aware, this has never once happened.
      - theshrike79 5y ago
        If your threat model includes Apple surreptitiously enabling spying features on your phone, sure. Mine doesn't.
  - jachee 5y ago
    > How does their content get on google's servers? Same way it would get onto Apple’s servers: the customer chooses to upload it. The difference is that with on-device screening, Apple wouldn’t have to take delivery of CSAM to detect it, and it doesn’t have to scan anything that’s not destined to be uploaded.
- himaraya 5y ago
  Nah, Android 12 makes opting out of data collection for ads pretty straightforward. I'll take server scans instead of device scans any day of the week.
kjreact 5y ago
Let’s wait until Apple actual starts device scanning before condemning them for it? Apple were up front with their plans and after hearing the public outcry they canceled their rollout. Other companies would have just rolled out the change without disclosure and called it a day.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Apple already did roll out changes like this, without disclosure. They've been scanning your Emails like this without your knowledge for years, if it makes you feel any better. On top of that, people aren't mad about cloud scanning: that's obviously nothing new. Wasting my CPU resources to do it though? It just further perpetuates this feeling that I don't actually own any of my Apple devices, but rather renting them from a company that seeks collection at every corner. As a developer, I was already appalled. Now that they're starting to cut corners at the expense of the consumer, it's only a matter of time before the veneer chips away and we all realize that Apple is Yet Another Big Tech Company Trying To Be Different (YABTCTTBD).
  - kjreact 5y ago
    Re: scanning email, I did not see any articles that specifically said that Apple was scanning mail on-device. Can you point me to an article that states this fact clearly? As you say, scanning on the cloud isn’t really an issue since everyone is doing that anyways. But as a developer you should know email is inherently not a secure method of communication thus you should not expect any privacy when using it. Email is analogous to sending a postcard through the mail system.
- post_break 5y ago
  Lets be crystal clear, Apple cancelled nothing. They only postponed. And every time they were challenged they double and tripled downed that we the customers were just confused. They are moving forward with this.
  - kjreact 5y ago
    Ok, let’s use your terminology and say they are postponing the rollout. You speak as though they’ve already rolled it out. It could also be an indefinite postponement. Yet you insist on painting the narrative as if it already occurred. Guilty until proven innocent. I’ll be right there next to you protesting my right to privacy if they do rollout the feature against our wishes, but until then I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt. Also you mention every time Apple is challenged they contend that customers were confused what instances are you referring to?

runjake 5y ago

It does seem ass backwards. Google scans your content for CSAM on their servers. And they scan your content for demographic and advertising data and god knows what else. I do not see your logic here. It appears to be an ill-decided knee-jerk reaction.

chippiewill 5y ago
It's perplexing really. It's a bit like saying you don't like how the government spies on you, so you're moving to China.
cageface 5y ago
The difference is Android gives you options. If you’re locked into iOS you’ve got no recourse if you disagree with Apple’s decisions.
- top_sigrid 5y ago
  So what's the option of Google not scanning every content you have on their devices (I mean they even scan all your emails in Gmail)? With Apple's CSAM you have an actual option which is just to not use their iCloud photo sharing.
post_break 5y ago
What content? I don't upload any photos to Google.
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  Apple promised not to scan your photos with disabled iCloud. I don’t trust them to hold that promise, but may be you will.
  - post_break 5y ago
    I think you replied to the wrong comment, I sold my iPhone and switched to Android.
- runjake 5y ago
  Presumably you're using Android with the Google frameworks installed, so it's sending all kinds of telemetry, usage, and location data to Google. You can confirm this with something like Charles proxy. Or you may be one of the rare breed of people who can use a "de-Googled" Android distribution, such as CalyxOS, for over a month before giving up. Time will tell, I suppose.
  - jmnicolas 5y ago
    I'm on GrapheneOS since last December. Yes it's tough, but before that I had come to resent my phone and wondering what it was doing in the background.
    - runjake 5y ago
      I am sincerely jealous of your tolerance skills. I'd love to have the tolerance to jump to a de-Googled Android phone and bypass FAANG's walled garden. I've tried many times.
      - 7v3x3n3sem9vv 5y ago
        What didn't you like? Been using LineageOS on an old OnePlus I had and I'm enjoying it the last few months. Especially knowing it's not doing anything weird without my approval.
lrae 5y ago
> Google scans your content for CSAM on their servers. How does their content get on google's servers? And last time I checked, there was no content-scanning feature implemented in Android (and especially not in Graphene, Calyx, Lineage, or what ever.)
- theshrike79 5y ago
  Nothing was going to get scanned on iOS either, unless you had "upload to Apple servers" enabled...
  - lrae 5y ago
    Did you read the comment I replied to? And read the second part of my comment? Not sure what your commment has to do with anything. It's all good though, I'm still using an iPhone. But might switch, especially with so many people in HN comments telling me that Android would scan all my data and send it to Google without being able to substantiate that claim.
  - n8cpdx 5y ago
    *unless one of the iOS updates surreptitiously re-enabled "upload to Apple servers" as they are notorious for doing...
    - djrogers 5y ago
      Citation? As far as I’m aware, this has never once happened.
    - theshrike79 5y ago
      If your threat model includes Apple surreptitiously enabling spying features on your phone, sure. Mine doesn't.
- jachee 5y ago
  > How does their content get on google's servers? Same way it would get onto Apple’s servers: the customer chooses to upload it. The difference is that with on-device screening, Apple wouldn’t have to take delivery of CSAM to detect it, and it doesn’t have to scan anything that’s not destined to be uploaded.
himaraya 5y ago
Nah, Android 12 makes opting out of data collection for ads pretty straightforward. I'll take server scans instead of device scans any day of the week.

kjreact 5y ago

Let’s wait until Apple actual starts device scanning before condemning them for it? Apple were up front with their plans and after hearing the public outcry they canceled their rollout. Other companies would have just rolled out the change without disclosure and called it a day.

smoldesu 5y ago
Apple already did roll out changes like this, without disclosure. They've been scanning your Emails like this without your knowledge for years, if it makes you feel any better. On top of that, people aren't mad about cloud scanning: that's obviously nothing new. Wasting my CPU resources to do it though? It just further perpetuates this feeling that I don't actually own any of my Apple devices, but rather renting them from a company that seeks collection at every corner. As a developer, I was already appalled. Now that they're starting to cut corners at the expense of the consumer, it's only a matter of time before the veneer chips away and we all realize that Apple is Yet Another Big Tech Company Trying To Be Different (YABTCTTBD).
- kjreact 5y ago
  Re: scanning email, I did not see any articles that specifically said that Apple was scanning mail on-device. Can you point me to an article that states this fact clearly? As you say, scanning on the cloud isn’t really an issue since everyone is doing that anyways. But as a developer you should know email is inherently not a secure method of communication thus you should not expect any privacy when using it. Email is analogous to sending a postcard through the mail system.
post_break 5y ago
Lets be crystal clear, Apple cancelled nothing. They only postponed. And every time they were challenged they double and tripled downed that we the customers were just confused. They are moving forward with this.
- kjreact 5y ago
  Ok, let’s use your terminology and say they are postponing the rollout. You speak as though they’ve already rolled it out. It could also be an indefinite postponement. Yet you insist on painting the narrative as if it already occurred. Guilty until proven innocent. I’ll be right there next to you protesting my right to privacy if they do rollout the feature against our wishes, but until then I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt. Also you mention every time Apple is challenged they contend that customers were confused what instances are you referring to?