3 ms·

The subtle implication of your comment seems to be that I value my life and health less than you do? If so, I think that's unfair. But I'm happy to roll with it

The subtle implication of your comment seems to be that I value my life and health less than you do? If so, I think that's unfair. But I'm happy to roll with it. If, in the face of substantial evidence that two doses of one of the mRNA vaccines remain highly effective at preventing hospitalization and death 8 months on, you still cannot tolerate the potential that you could end up in a hospital in a developing country, suffer from long COVID following infection and/or die, logic dictates that you should reconsider travel. You might strongly believe or suspect that a booster will provide meaningful additional protection to you, but the ongoing booster debate reflects the fact that at the current time, there is no conclusive proof that a booster will definitely reduce risk in healthy already vaccinated individuals, nor has any potential risk reduction that booster proponents believe exists been conclusively quantified. Put simply, just because one believes that they have meaningfully increased protection from a booster does not necessarily mean that they actually do. Science will eventually tell us but the data isn't in yet.

blagie 5y ago
I don't think you've traveled so much if you think that's the implication, or at least not for long enough to soak in how values differ between cultures. No. That's not the implication. I don't know you well enough to tell you what the differences in our value systems are. Since you do ask, if I were to speculate, I would guess you value your life and comfort more than I value mine. I was never fearful of dying of COVID, or of hospitalization, even pre-vax. Americans place an exceptionally high value on their own life and comfort relative to most cultures. I've also been in several hospitals in developing countries, and that's also not something which has really concerned me. On the other hand, I suspect I am much more concerned about long COVID than you are. And no, we don't know much for sure about COVID, but we have to work from best available evidence. If there's e.g. a 50% chance that a booster shot increases protection from 30% breakthroughs to 15%, and a 50% chance it does nothing, that means I've reduced my odds of breakthrough by (30-15)*50% = 7.5%.
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago
  Ha. So now you're questioning how much I've traveled. :eyeroll: I don't know you so I won't pretend to know how much you value anything, how much you've traveled, etc. but you seem to be shifting your position for the sake of arguing. For example, you're now saying you're fine with hospitals in developing countries, but your original comment expressed concern about your ability to receive quality care in Vietnam: > They are well beyond hospital capacity, so if I do have a serious case, it's uncertain I'll receive quality care As for: > And no, we don't know much for sure about COVID, but we have to work from best available evidence. If there's e.g. a 50% chance that a booster shot increases protection from 30% breakthroughs to 15%, and a 50% chance it does nothing, that means I've reduced my odds of breakthrough by (30-15)*50% = 7.5%. In other words, your "absolute" need for a booster shot is based on numbers you've pulled out of a hat.

blagie 5y ago

I don't think you've traveled so much if you think that's the implication, or at least not for long enough to soak in how values differ between cultures. No. That's not the implication. I don't know you well enough to tell you what the differences in our value systems are. Since you do ask, if I were to speculate, I would guess you value your life and comfort more than I value mine. I was never fearful of dying of COVID, or of hospitalization, even pre-vax. Americans place an exceptionally high value on their own life and comfort relative to most cultures. I've also been in several hospitals in developing countries, and that's also not something which has really concerned me. On the other hand, I suspect I am much more concerned about long COVID than you are. And no, we don't know much for sure about COVID, but we have to work from best available evidence. If there's e.g. a 50% chance that a booster shot increases protection from 30% breakthroughs to 15%, and a 50% chance it does nothing, that means I've reduced my odds of breakthrough by (30-15)*50% = 7.5%.

LurkingPenguin 5y ago
Ha. So now you're questioning how much I've traveled. :eyeroll: I don't know you so I won't pretend to know how much you value anything, how much you've traveled, etc. but you seem to be shifting your position for the sake of arguing. For example, you're now saying you're fine with hospitals in developing countries, but your original comment expressed concern about your ability to receive quality care in Vietnam: > They are well beyond hospital capacity, so if I do have a serious case, it's uncertain I'll receive quality care As for: > And no, we don't know much for sure about COVID, but we have to work from best available evidence. If there's e.g. a 50% chance that a booster shot increases protection from 30% breakthroughs to 15%, and a 50% chance it does nothing, that means I've reduced my odds of breakthrough by (30-15)*50% = 7.5%. In other words, your "absolute" need for a booster shot is based on numbers you've pulled out of a hat.