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> Teenage girls are predisposed to behave in the way described, and Facebook/Instagram is profiting by exploiting that. Has this been studied, or are we taking

> Teenage girls are predisposed to behave in the way described, and Facebook/Instagram is profiting by exploiting that. Has this been studied, or are we taking an arbitrary thought experiment as a foundational axiom?

revel 5y ago
Facebook studied it internally and covered it up in congressional testimony. That's literally what the article is about
mrgreenfur 5y ago
Agreed. SOME may behave this way, but without more info who are we to say that they "are predisposed" in general. Teenage years are very hard for tons of reasons mentioned above and the way people handle those stresses comes down to tons of factors, support systems, upbringing, context, culture, etc. Facebook is immorally exploiting that stress.
remarkEon 5y ago
It’s kind of amazing to me that an observation that anyone could make based on their experience as a human living on planet earth gets discounted because there isn’t some peer reviewed study from Harvard or whatever that confirms the observation. Young girls are mean to each other, that’s a fact. We don’t need an army of data scientists to “look into it”.
- zepto 5y ago
  > Young girls are mean to each other, that’s a fact. In all societies across time? Or just in American High schools and on Instagram?
  - remarkEon 5y ago
    Lemme get Yale on the phone, or better yet Oxford. Maybe they can provide us an answer to the question of “are young girls mean to each other, yes or no”.
    - zepto 5y ago
      How is this sarcastic answer helpful? As far as I can see you have provided no useful information. If you don’t think universities are the right people to help with this question, who would you recommend to answer it? You said: “Young girls are mean to each other, that’s a fact.” How do you know this fact?
      - remarkEon 5y ago
        > How is this sarcastic answer helpful? It’s helpful because it’s pointing out how absurd it is to constantly demand “data” to verify rudimentary observations of human nature. For whatever reason, and maybe it’s because of tech being so data obsessed, you can make a claim on this website as benign as “look both ways before crossing the street” and inevitably someone will want to see a “peer reviewed” study that says looking both ways before crossing the street “affects the outcome variable” of not getting hit by a car. > If you don’t think universities are the right people to help with this question, who would you recommend to answer it? Your mother, or your sister if you have one. >How do you know this fact? My name is remarkEon and I went to middle and high school in the United States on a planet I call Earth.
        zepto 5y ago
        >>> Young girls are mean to each other, that’s a fact. >>> In all societies across time? Or just in American High schools and on Instagram? >> How do you know this fact? >My name is remarkEon and I went to middle and high school in the United States on a planet I call Earth. Ok, so you think your American High school experience gives you insight into all societies across time. Understood. Your answers make sense now. Thanks for answering.
        remarkEon 5y ago
        Is your claim that only in the United States is it that girls are mean to each other when they are in primary and secondary school? This seems like a much more extreme claim than mine. You have to argue that there’s something unique about the not_the_United_States schools such that there’s something nullifying intrafemale competition. It’s a claim so extreme that … I’d like to see some data to back it up.
- sseagull 5y ago
  Maybe experience shouldn't be thrown outright, but there is a history of "obvious" stuff that falls apart under scrutiny. Observer expectations can be really strong. For example, does sugar make kids hyperactive? No real evidence for it (last I checked). But widely believed as fact.
- JohnWhigham 5y ago
  It's a weird phenomenon that's unique to HN. I understand that the idea is to elevate online discussion here, but many do it to such an absurd degree that anything anyone says always has someone asking for a source. I sometimes wonder how these people would have survived at parties or social gatherings before the Internet when you couldn't just whip out your phone, spend 2 minutes not talking to anyone, click on the first Google search result, and then proclaiming "um acksually..."
- everdrive 5y ago
  Experience and observation are a great place to begin an investigation. Of course if you're not careful, they can incorrectly color your results. As you say, anecdotal beliefs are not necessarily facts. That said, the error I see more commonly is that the observation is perfectly valid, (or at least roughly valid) but the explanation is poor. People believe in the explanation because they feel so strongly about the observation. This is a fallacy I see over and over again. (and is often something I've seen leveraged in scams: "You've all experienced X. Here are some emotional stories about X. Now let me tell you how I have all the answers to X.") I've tried to make it clear that my idea is not proven, but is something that I think is reasonable, and will hopefully lead to an interesting discussion. I'm definitely not suggesting that I have access to the truth, or that my idea is fact simply because I've explained something using scientific terms.

revel 5y ago

Facebook studied it internally and covered it up in congressional testimony. That's literally what the article is about

mrgreenfur 5y ago

Agreed. SOME may behave this way, but without more info who are we to say that they "are predisposed" in general. Teenage years are very hard for tons of reasons mentioned above and the way people handle those stresses comes down to tons of factors, support systems, upbringing, context, culture, etc. Facebook is immorally exploiting that stress.

remarkEon 5y ago

It’s kind of amazing to me that an observation that anyone could make based on their experience as a human living on planet earth gets discounted because there isn’t some peer reviewed study from Harvard or whatever that confirms the observation. Young girls are mean to each other, that’s a fact. We don’t need an army of data scientists to “look into it”.

zepto 5y ago
> Young girls are mean to each other, that’s a fact. In all societies across time? Or just in American High schools and on Instagram?
- remarkEon 5y ago
  Lemme get Yale on the phone, or better yet Oxford. Maybe they can provide us an answer to the question of “are young girls mean to each other, yes or no”.
  - zepto 5y ago
    How is this sarcastic answer helpful? As far as I can see you have provided no useful information. If you don’t think universities are the right people to help with this question, who would you recommend to answer it? You said: “Young girls are mean to each other, that’s a fact.” How do you know this fact?
    - remarkEon 5y ago
      > How is this sarcastic answer helpful? It’s helpful because it’s pointing out how absurd it is to constantly demand “data” to verify rudimentary observations of human nature. For whatever reason, and maybe it’s because of tech being so data obsessed, you can make a claim on this website as benign as “look both ways before crossing the street” and inevitably someone will want to see a “peer reviewed” study that says looking both ways before crossing the street “affects the outcome variable” of not getting hit by a car. > If you don’t think universities are the right people to help with this question, who would you recommend to answer it? Your mother, or your sister if you have one. >How do you know this fact? My name is remarkEon and I went to middle and high school in the United States on a planet I call Earth.
      - zepto 5y ago
        >>> Young girls are mean to each other, that’s a fact. >>> In all societies across time? Or just in American High schools and on Instagram? >> How do you know this fact? >My name is remarkEon and I went to middle and high school in the United States on a planet I call Earth. Ok, so you think your American High school experience gives you insight into all societies across time. Understood. Your answers make sense now. Thanks for answering.
        remarkEon 5y ago
        Is your claim that only in the United States is it that girls are mean to each other when they are in primary and secondary school? This seems like a much more extreme claim than mine. You have to argue that there’s something unique about the not_the_United_States schools such that there’s something nullifying intrafemale competition. It’s a claim so extreme that … I’d like to see some data to back it up.
sseagull 5y ago
Maybe experience shouldn't be thrown outright, but there is a history of "obvious" stuff that falls apart under scrutiny. Observer expectations can be really strong. For example, does sugar make kids hyperactive? No real evidence for it (last I checked). But widely believed as fact.
JohnWhigham 5y ago
It's a weird phenomenon that's unique to HN. I understand that the idea is to elevate online discussion here, but many do it to such an absurd degree that anything anyone says always has someone asking for a source. I sometimes wonder how these people would have survived at parties or social gatherings before the Internet when you couldn't just whip out your phone, spend 2 minutes not talking to anyone, click on the first Google search result, and then proclaiming "um acksually..."
everdrive 5y ago
Experience and observation are a great place to begin an investigation. Of course if you're not careful, they can incorrectly color your results. As you say, anecdotal beliefs are not necessarily facts. That said, the error I see more commonly is that the observation is perfectly valid, (or at least roughly valid) but the explanation is poor. People believe in the explanation because they feel so strongly about the observation. This is a fallacy I see over and over again. (and is often something I've seen leveraged in scams: "You've all experienced X. Here are some emotional stories about X. Now let me tell you how I have all the answers to X.") I've tried to make it clear that my idea is not proven, but is something that I think is reasonable, and will hopefully lead to an interesting discussion. I'm definitely not suggesting that I have access to the truth, or that my idea is fact simply because I've explained something using scientific terms.