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> Is it to protect the unvaccinated? COVID is not going away, so IMO here we just want everyone in this population to get the disease as fast as possible to get

> Is it to protect the unvaccinated? COVID is not going away, so IMO here we just want everyone in this population to get the disease as fast as possible to get it over with. No we definitely do not want that. There are large deaths of the country where vaccinated people are dying of unrelated conditions simply because hospitals are too full of dying unvaccinated COVID patients. The only way this works is if hospitals deny admittance to unvaccinated patients entirely, to reserve capacity for all the normal reasons that people need hospitals. No one is seriously suggesting this level of care rationing though.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
pasquinelli 5y ago
it's really simple: you ration care according to the urgency of need. it's no different than any other event that would bring more people to the hospital than usual. i've heard stories like what you're talking about. they don't make much sense. hospitals running out of oxygen? get more oxygen. that's why we have roads and trucks. not enough beds in the icu? build more. i think often about the start of the pandemic, before it got over here. i saw a story on the news that china had put up several hospitals practically overnight to handle the influx of patients. but here there's nothing but lame excuses. when i hear that kind of stuff it feels like i'm talking to someone that owes me money but doesn't have it.
- zaccusl 5y ago
  Serious questions: 1. Where do you get the extra oxygen? There are places asking residents to reduce water usage because they are running out of liquid oxygen (used for water treatment in those places) do to medical uses. Do we have an enough manufacturing capabilities to produce enough oxygen to satisfy demand? Can this easily be increased? 2. "Beds" is not accurate. Often hospitals at 100%+ capacity still have physical space (i.e. "beds"), but who staffs the beds? You need doctors, nurses, and custodial staff. Where do those come from? Traveling nurses are a thing and places like Florida and Texas are hiring hundreds (thousands?). What is they supply of these nurses? What about doctors? 3. Where do the dead go and how do you deal with it? At the beginning of the pandemic NYC has to use refrigerated trucks. Now Texas and Florida (and presumably other out of control places) are also using refrigerated trucks to store the dead. This is probably one of the easier logistical issues because presumably we could just freeze the thousands of dead people every day until morgues and other resources could catch up. I don't think this is so simple as "get more oxygen" and "add beds".
- CydeWeys 5y ago
  > i've heard stories like what you're talking about. they don't make much sense. hospitals running out of oxygen? get more oxygen. that's why we have roads and trucks. not enough beds in the icu? build more. Poor? Just get more money! If only every problem had such a facile answer! None of this is remotely as easy as you seem to think it is. If it were that easy, they'd already be doing it. They're not morons. And as someone else pointed out, "not enough beds" is shorthand for "not enough doctors and nurses". It'll take years to increase the supply there.
samtheprogram 5y ago
Where are people dying because the hospitals are too full of unvaccinated patients dying of COVID-19?
- mythrwy 5y ago
  On the twitter!
- Frondo 5y ago
  In Southern Oregon, people with cancer or who are at risk of heart attack or stroke are being made to wait for care, because the hospitals are filled with unvaccinated COVID-19 patients: https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2021/09/absolutely-heartbreaking-week-of-deaths-at-southern-oregon-hospital.html https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2021/09/absolutely-he... In another rural region (Idaho, maybe?) there was just that, someone who had some treatable condition who was unable to be seen for all the unvaccinated COVID patients, and who died from the condition. I couldn't find the article, but it was just published on some authoritative news service a few days ago, in case you'd like to look for it.
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    I mean the government and these private hospitals had a year and a half to build capacity. Last I checked building capacity was supposed to be the rationale for the whole “flatten the curve” thing back in March of 2020. Why are hospitals “full” when they had all this time? Why is society supposed to be punished for a failure of leadership to do what they said?
    - supercheetah 5y ago
      Doctors and nurses don't get built in a year.
      - spookthesunset 5y ago
        That seems like such an excuse. A year and a half is plenty of time to get creative. Pull people out of retirement. Let nursing students do more. Pay truckloads of money to all of them. I dunno. Figure it out. These folks are supposed to be the “experts”… what have they been doing this whole time? Saying “no it cannot be done” is just not a valid excuse.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

pasquinelli 5y ago

it's really simple: you ration care according to the urgency of need. it's no different than any other event that would bring more people to the hospital than usual. i've heard stories like what you're talking about. they don't make much sense. hospitals running out of oxygen? get more oxygen. that's why we have roads and trucks. not enough beds in the icu? build more. i think often about the start of the pandemic, before it got over here. i saw a story on the news that china had put up several hospitals practically overnight to handle the influx of patients. but here there's nothing but lame excuses. when i hear that kind of stuff it feels like i'm talking to someone that owes me money but doesn't have it.

zaccusl 5y ago
Serious questions: 1. Where do you get the extra oxygen? There are places asking residents to reduce water usage because they are running out of liquid oxygen (used for water treatment in those places) do to medical uses. Do we have an enough manufacturing capabilities to produce enough oxygen to satisfy demand? Can this easily be increased? 2. "Beds" is not accurate. Often hospitals at 100%+ capacity still have physical space (i.e. "beds"), but who staffs the beds? You need doctors, nurses, and custodial staff. Where do those come from? Traveling nurses are a thing and places like Florida and Texas are hiring hundreds (thousands?). What is they supply of these nurses? What about doctors? 3. Where do the dead go and how do you deal with it? At the beginning of the pandemic NYC has to use refrigerated trucks. Now Texas and Florida (and presumably other out of control places) are also using refrigerated trucks to store the dead. This is probably one of the easier logistical issues because presumably we could just freeze the thousands of dead people every day until morgues and other resources could catch up. I don't think this is so simple as "get more oxygen" and "add beds".
CydeWeys 5y ago
> i've heard stories like what you're talking about. they don't make much sense. hospitals running out of oxygen? get more oxygen. that's why we have roads and trucks. not enough beds in the icu? build more. Poor? Just get more money! If only every problem had such a facile answer! None of this is remotely as easy as you seem to think it is. If it were that easy, they'd already be doing it. They're not morons. And as someone else pointed out, "not enough beds" is shorthand for "not enough doctors and nurses". It'll take years to increase the supply there.

samtheprogram 5y ago

Where are people dying because the hospitals are too full of unvaccinated patients dying of COVID-19?

mythrwy 5y ago
On the twitter!
Frondo 5y ago
In Southern Oregon, people with cancer or who are at risk of heart attack or stroke are being made to wait for care, because the hospitals are filled with unvaccinated COVID-19 patients: https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2021/09/absolutely-heartbreaking-week-of-deaths-at-southern-oregon-hospital.html https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2021/09/absolutely-he... In another rural region (Idaho, maybe?) there was just that, someone who had some treatable condition who was unable to be seen for all the unvaccinated COVID patients, and who died from the condition. I couldn't find the article, but it was just published on some authoritative news service a few days ago, in case you'd like to look for it.
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  I mean the government and these private hospitals had a year and a half to build capacity. Last I checked building capacity was supposed to be the rationale for the whole “flatten the curve” thing back in March of 2020. Why are hospitals “full” when they had all this time? Why is society supposed to be punished for a failure of leadership to do what they said?
  - supercheetah 5y ago
    Doctors and nurses don't get built in a year.
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      That seems like such an excuse. A year and a half is plenty of time to get creative. Pull people out of retirement. Let nursing students do more. Pay truckloads of money to all of them. I dunno. Figure it out. These folks are supposed to be the “experts”… what have they been doing this whole time? Saying “no it cannot be done” is just not a valid excuse.