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Australia is not a police state, or even close. I live in Melbourne, the city with the strictest lockdown laws, and people flout the laws in front of the cops

Australia is not a police state, or even close. I live in Melbourne, the city with the strictest lockdown laws, and people flout the laws in front of the cops all the time. They don't give a fuck any more either.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
> and people flout the laws in front of the cops all the time. They don't give a fuck any more either. Laws that have negligible compliance rates but can be enforced on a whim to cause problems for people who dare cause problems for the government (or those whom the government serves) are a hallmark of totalitarian states.
- javagram 5y ago
  So the USA is a totalitarian state then because people flout the laws on speeding and jaywalking in front of the police all the time.
  - leesalminen 5y ago
    People intentionally speed in front of the police? I certainly slow down whenever I see one and make a habit of not passing one.
    - javagram 5y ago
      Pretty much everyone on the highway in the USA is going at least 5mph over the speed limit unless traffic is congested. Police notoriously have an excuse to pull almost anyone over at any time. It’s still not a totalitarian state though.
  - BikiniPrince 5y ago
    Try jaywalking in Seattle unless you are homeless. I had one yell at me from three blocks away.
  - adolph 5y ago
    Given the growth in law, regulation and economic share of the state I could see the argument for the US being defined as totalitarian, yes.
    - javagram 5y ago
      You can say almost anything you want no matter how offensive or political in the USA (e.g. Elon Musk winning at trial after calling a random innocent a pedophile, constant political campaigning from every side accusing the others of horrible things). We regularly vote out and replace our leaders every 2-4 years in a free democratic election. It just doesn’t make sense to call this totalitarian, or if so it cheapens the word totalitarian to mean nothing.
      - adolph 5y ago
        These degrees of freedom exist, yes. They also don’t entirely repudiate the basic claim that the US is substantially a totalitarian state. The genesis of it didn’t come from a revolution devolved into a cult of personality as in past times. I think it mostly stems from relatively benign reasons, growth in entitlements, “there aught to be a law” attitudes, zero tolerance, unending internal wars/crusades against poverty, crime and drugs. Totalitarianism is a proposed concept used in academia and in politics to describe a form of government and political system that prohibits all opposition parties, outlaws individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
discordance 5y ago
It's more about a society enabling the police state and associated powers, rather than a particular circumstance of some police not choosing to use the powers they've been granted.
rigonkulous 5y ago
Witness J, Pine Gap, "The Boat People", Australian Genocide. Australia as been a police state since the beginning.
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  In the same sense that all the western colonial/settler states did/do the same, including (or especially) the US. Slavery, indigenous genocide/displacement, and involvement in colonial/imperialist wars. Par for the course.
  - uselesscynicism 5y ago
    You mean every society. Every society in history has committed genocide, slavery, displacement. Before the colonists came, the locals warred among themselves, everywhere. To suggest that this is a unique trait of the West is incredibly offensive, as it is to blame all violence on European-descended whites, and it supposes that if it weren't for them the native peoples around the world would today live in peace. Anyone who has read history knows that's just ridiculous.
andrepd 5y ago
Whistleblowers are tried in secret courts, press freedoms are curtailed, and surveillance is advancing at an alarming rate. Sorry, it doesn't stop being a police state just because police don't arrest you for jaywalking.
trompetenaccoun 5y ago
$5000 fines for protesting government policy, $10,000 fines for sharing information about "illegal" protests on Facebook. Licensed journalists harassed by police and told they will be fined if they don't leave because they're outside illegally. Etc... Are you sure it isn't a police state at this point? Because if that were anywhere else I'm pretty sure we'd call it a police state.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

> and people flout the laws in front of the cops all the time. They don't give a fuck any more either. Laws that have negligible compliance rates but can be enforced on a whim to cause problems for people who dare cause problems for the government (or those whom the government serves) are a hallmark of totalitarian states.

javagram 5y ago
So the USA is a totalitarian state then because people flout the laws on speeding and jaywalking in front of the police all the time.
- leesalminen 5y ago
  People intentionally speed in front of the police? I certainly slow down whenever I see one and make a habit of not passing one.
  - javagram 5y ago
    Pretty much everyone on the highway in the USA is going at least 5mph over the speed limit unless traffic is congested. Police notoriously have an excuse to pull almost anyone over at any time. It’s still not a totalitarian state though.
- BikiniPrince 5y ago
  Try jaywalking in Seattle unless you are homeless. I had one yell at me from three blocks away.
- adolph 5y ago
  Given the growth in law, regulation and economic share of the state I could see the argument for the US being defined as totalitarian, yes.
  - javagram 5y ago
    You can say almost anything you want no matter how offensive or political in the USA (e.g. Elon Musk winning at trial after calling a random innocent a pedophile, constant political campaigning from every side accusing the others of horrible things). We regularly vote out and replace our leaders every 2-4 years in a free democratic election. It just doesn’t make sense to call this totalitarian, or if so it cheapens the word totalitarian to mean nothing.
    - adolph 5y ago
      These degrees of freedom exist, yes. They also don’t entirely repudiate the basic claim that the US is substantially a totalitarian state. The genesis of it didn’t come from a revolution devolved into a cult of personality as in past times. I think it mostly stems from relatively benign reasons, growth in entitlements, “there aught to be a law” attitudes, zero tolerance, unending internal wars/crusades against poverty, crime and drugs. Totalitarianism is a proposed concept used in academia and in politics to describe a form of government and political system that prohibits all opposition parties, outlaws individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

discordance 5y ago

It's more about a society enabling the police state and associated powers, rather than a particular circumstance of some police not choosing to use the powers they've been granted.

rigonkulous 5y ago

Witness J, Pine Gap, "The Boat People", Australian Genocide. Australia as been a police state since the beginning.

cmrdporcupine 5y ago
In the same sense that all the western colonial/settler states did/do the same, including (or especially) the US. Slavery, indigenous genocide/displacement, and involvement in colonial/imperialist wars. Par for the course.
- uselesscynicism 5y ago
  You mean every society. Every society in history has committed genocide, slavery, displacement. Before the colonists came, the locals warred among themselves, everywhere. To suggest that this is a unique trait of the West is incredibly offensive, as it is to blame all violence on European-descended whites, and it supposes that if it weren't for them the native peoples around the world would today live in peace. Anyone who has read history knows that's just ridiculous.

andrepd 5y ago

Whistleblowers are tried in secret courts, press freedoms are curtailed, and surveillance is advancing at an alarming rate. Sorry, it doesn't stop being a police state just because police don't arrest you for jaywalking.

trompetenaccoun 5y ago

$5000 fines for protesting government policy, $10,000 fines for sharing information about "illegal" protests on Facebook. Licensed journalists harassed by police and told they will be fined if they don't leave because they're outside illegally. Etc... Are you sure it isn't a police state at this point? Because if that were anywhere else I'm pretty sure we'd call it a police state.