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Police states gonna police state. First disarm them, then take all their rights away for "safety and the children" otherwise you might be a "terrorist". Resist

Police states gonna police state. First disarm them, then take all their rights away for "safety and the children" otherwise you might be a "terrorist". Resist tyranny while you can people, its a gradual march, it can happen anywhere.

AussieWog93 5y ago
Australia is not a police state, or even close. I live in Melbourne, the city with the strictest lockdown laws, and people flout the laws in front of the cops all the time. They don't give a fuck any more either.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  > and people flout the laws in front of the cops all the time. They don't give a fuck any more either. Laws that have negligible compliance rates but can be enforced on a whim to cause problems for people who dare cause problems for the government (or those whom the government serves) are a hallmark of totalitarian states.
  - javagram 5y ago
    So the USA is a totalitarian state then because people flout the laws on speeding and jaywalking in front of the police all the time.
    - leesalminen 5y ago
      People intentionally speed in front of the police? I certainly slow down whenever I see one and make a habit of not passing one.
      - javagram 5y ago
        Pretty much everyone on the highway in the USA is going at least 5mph over the speed limit unless traffic is congested. Police notoriously have an excuse to pull almost anyone over at any time. It’s still not a totalitarian state though.
    - BikiniPrince 5y ago
      Try jaywalking in Seattle unless you are homeless. I had one yell at me from three blocks away.
    - adolph 5y ago
      Given the growth in law, regulation and economic share of the state I could see the argument for the US being defined as totalitarian, yes.
      - javagram 5y ago
        You can say almost anything you want no matter how offensive or political in the USA (e.g. Elon Musk winning at trial after calling a random innocent a pedophile, constant political campaigning from every side accusing the others of horrible things). We regularly vote out and replace our leaders every 2-4 years in a free democratic election. It just doesn’t make sense to call this totalitarian, or if so it cheapens the word totalitarian to mean nothing.
        adolph 5y ago
        These degrees of freedom exist, yes. They also don’t entirely repudiate the basic claim that the US is substantially a totalitarian state. The genesis of it didn’t come from a revolution devolved into a cult of personality as in past times. I think it mostly stems from relatively benign reasons, growth in entitlements, “there aught to be a law” attitudes, zero tolerance, unending internal wars/crusades against poverty, crime and drugs. Totalitarianism is a proposed concept used in academia and in politics to describe a form of government and political system that prohibits all opposition parties, outlaws individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
- discordance 5y ago
  It's more about a society enabling the police state and associated powers, rather than a particular circumstance of some police not choosing to use the powers they've been granted.
- rigonkulous 5y ago
  Witness J, Pine Gap, "The Boat People", Australian Genocide. Australia as been a police state since the beginning.
  - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
    In the same sense that all the western colonial/settler states did/do the same, including (or especially) the US. Slavery, indigenous genocide/displacement, and involvement in colonial/imperialist wars. Par for the course.
    - uselesscynicism 5y ago
      You mean every society. Every society in history has committed genocide, slavery, displacement. Before the colonists came, the locals warred among themselves, everywhere. To suggest that this is a unique trait of the West is incredibly offensive, as it is to blame all violence on European-descended whites, and it supposes that if it weren't for them the native peoples around the world would today live in peace. Anyone who has read history knows that's just ridiculous.
- andrepd 5y ago
  Whistleblowers are tried in secret courts, press freedoms are curtailed, and surveillance is advancing at an alarming rate. Sorry, it doesn't stop being a police state just because police don't arrest you for jaywalking.
- trompetenaccoun 5y ago
  $5000 fines for protesting government policy, $10,000 fines for sharing information about "illegal" protests on Facebook. Licensed journalists harassed by police and told they will be fined if they don't leave because they're outside illegally. Etc... Are you sure it isn't a police state at this point? Because if that were anywhere else I'm pretty sure we'd call it a police state.
ehnto 5y ago
We were never particularly armed in the first place.
- refurb 5y ago
  Last I saw Australia still has millions of guns.
  - sgt 5y ago
    Yeah but that's for hunting mostly, right? You can never take that away. Is it possible to legally carry a sidearm (concealed or not) in Australia?
    - ajdlinux 5y ago
      It's impossible to get a handgun licence for self-defence unless you work for a security company like Armaguard, who are only allowed to use guns for defence of property rather than bodyguard-style services.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - paranoidrobot 5y ago
      The firearms licensing laws vary from state to state, but as a general rule you need a 'legitimate' reason to own a firearm, and self-defence is generally not one of them. For instance in NSW (the state that Sydney is in) - the NSW Police have a list of Genuine Reasons to own a firearm[1]. There's also other criteria you need to meet. It means that day to day, as a general rule the only people you might encounter with a firearm are police officers. That is, unless you work in a rural area or in one of those related industries. [1] https://portal.police.nsw.gov.au/s/article/Firearms-Licensing-Frequently-Asked-Questions#npc3 https://portal.police.nsw.gov.au/s/article/Firearms-Licensin...
    - senectus1 5y ago
      and sport shooting yes
JulianMorrison 5y ago
Australia's government is conservative, and their rights-taking is mostly racist.
paranoidrobot 5y ago
> First disarm them I still don't understand this mentality. The ability to enact change in government is entirely unrelated to the ability to posses firearms.
- racnid 5y ago
  Must be nice to have that much faith.
- decremental 5y ago
  Write your local representatives and hope you don't get pepper sprayed when you protest. That's the way you defeat tyranny.
  - paranoidrobot 5y ago
    People protest all the time. Pepper spray rarely gets involved. Even during the pandemic there's been protests. Most of which were pretty peaceful.
- SailingSperm 5y ago
  It's the real and perceived threat of resistance. Do you think 'compliance officers' would be more willing/confident going door to door in a society that is armed or disarmed? A different approach might have been a used in East Germany if every house the Stasi went into looking for 'undesirables' had the potential for meeting a shotgun.
  - paranoidrobot 5y ago
    What's a compliance officer, and why are they going to people's homes? > A different approach might have been a used in East Germany if every house the Stasi went into looking for 'undesirables' had the potential for meeting a shotgun. Not everything has to be compared to Nazi Germany. I'll note that the lower possession of guns does have a difference in how we interact with the police, ad how the police interact with everyone else. For instance, Officer-involved shootings are practically non-existent. For that matter, shootings of any kind are practically non-existent. No-knock / SWAT style raids and use of pyrotechnics/flash-bangs/etc are reserved for where there's a lot more evidence that someone has a large number of weapons. Nobody is afraid they might get shot by a police officer because they reached into their glove box or into their pocket. I'm not saying things are all rainbows and unicorns, but still... I don't see how turning up to talk to your representatives with a whole bunch of weapons is going to make the conversation go any better.

AussieWog93 5y ago

Australia is not a police state, or even close. I live in Melbourne, the city with the strictest lockdown laws, and people flout the laws in front of the cops all the time. They don't give a fuck any more either.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
> and people flout the laws in front of the cops all the time. They don't give a fuck any more either. Laws that have negligible compliance rates but can be enforced on a whim to cause problems for people who dare cause problems for the government (or those whom the government serves) are a hallmark of totalitarian states.
- javagram 5y ago
  So the USA is a totalitarian state then because people flout the laws on speeding and jaywalking in front of the police all the time.
  - leesalminen 5y ago
    People intentionally speed in front of the police? I certainly slow down whenever I see one and make a habit of not passing one.
    - javagram 5y ago
      Pretty much everyone on the highway in the USA is going at least 5mph over the speed limit unless traffic is congested. Police notoriously have an excuse to pull almost anyone over at any time. It’s still not a totalitarian state though.
  - BikiniPrince 5y ago
    Try jaywalking in Seattle unless you are homeless. I had one yell at me from three blocks away.
  - adolph 5y ago
    Given the growth in law, regulation and economic share of the state I could see the argument for the US being defined as totalitarian, yes.
    - javagram 5y ago
      You can say almost anything you want no matter how offensive or political in the USA (e.g. Elon Musk winning at trial after calling a random innocent a pedophile, constant political campaigning from every side accusing the others of horrible things). We regularly vote out and replace our leaders every 2-4 years in a free democratic election. It just doesn’t make sense to call this totalitarian, or if so it cheapens the word totalitarian to mean nothing.
      - adolph 5y ago
        These degrees of freedom exist, yes. They also don’t entirely repudiate the basic claim that the US is substantially a totalitarian state. The genesis of it didn’t come from a revolution devolved into a cult of personality as in past times. I think it mostly stems from relatively benign reasons, growth in entitlements, “there aught to be a law” attitudes, zero tolerance, unending internal wars/crusades against poverty, crime and drugs. Totalitarianism is a proposed concept used in academia and in politics to describe a form of government and political system that prohibits all opposition parties, outlaws individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
discordance 5y ago
It's more about a society enabling the police state and associated powers, rather than a particular circumstance of some police not choosing to use the powers they've been granted.
rigonkulous 5y ago
Witness J, Pine Gap, "The Boat People", Australian Genocide. Australia as been a police state since the beginning.
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  In the same sense that all the western colonial/settler states did/do the same, including (or especially) the US. Slavery, indigenous genocide/displacement, and involvement in colonial/imperialist wars. Par for the course.
  - uselesscynicism 5y ago
    You mean every society. Every society in history has committed genocide, slavery, displacement. Before the colonists came, the locals warred among themselves, everywhere. To suggest that this is a unique trait of the West is incredibly offensive, as it is to blame all violence on European-descended whites, and it supposes that if it weren't for them the native peoples around the world would today live in peace. Anyone who has read history knows that's just ridiculous.
andrepd 5y ago
Whistleblowers are tried in secret courts, press freedoms are curtailed, and surveillance is advancing at an alarming rate. Sorry, it doesn't stop being a police state just because police don't arrest you for jaywalking.
trompetenaccoun 5y ago
$5000 fines for protesting government policy, $10,000 fines for sharing information about "illegal" protests on Facebook. Licensed journalists harassed by police and told they will be fined if they don't leave because they're outside illegally. Etc... Are you sure it isn't a police state at this point? Because if that were anywhere else I'm pretty sure we'd call it a police state.

ehnto 5y ago

We were never particularly armed in the first place.

refurb 5y ago
Last I saw Australia still has millions of guns.
- sgt 5y ago
  Yeah but that's for hunting mostly, right? You can never take that away. Is it possible to legally carry a sidearm (concealed or not) in Australia?
  - ajdlinux 5y ago
    It's impossible to get a handgun licence for self-defence unless you work for a security company like Armaguard, who are only allowed to use guns for defence of property rather than bodyguard-style services.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - paranoidrobot 5y ago
    The firearms licensing laws vary from state to state, but as a general rule you need a 'legitimate' reason to own a firearm, and self-defence is generally not one of them. For instance in NSW (the state that Sydney is in) - the NSW Police have a list of Genuine Reasons to own a firearm[1]. There's also other criteria you need to meet. It means that day to day, as a general rule the only people you might encounter with a firearm are police officers. That is, unless you work in a rural area or in one of those related industries. [1] https://portal.police.nsw.gov.au/s/article/Firearms-Licensing-Frequently-Asked-Questions#npc3 https://portal.police.nsw.gov.au/s/article/Firearms-Licensin...
  - senectus1 5y ago
    and sport shooting yes

JulianMorrison 5y ago

Australia's government is conservative, and their rights-taking is mostly racist.

paranoidrobot 5y ago

> First disarm them I still don't understand this mentality. The ability to enact change in government is entirely unrelated to the ability to posses firearms.

racnid 5y ago
Must be nice to have that much faith.
decremental 5y ago
Write your local representatives and hope you don't get pepper sprayed when you protest. That's the way you defeat tyranny.
- paranoidrobot 5y ago
  People protest all the time. Pepper spray rarely gets involved. Even during the pandemic there's been protests. Most of which were pretty peaceful.
SailingSperm 5y ago
It's the real and perceived threat of resistance. Do you think 'compliance officers' would be more willing/confident going door to door in a society that is armed or disarmed? A different approach might have been a used in East Germany if every house the Stasi went into looking for 'undesirables' had the potential for meeting a shotgun.
- paranoidrobot 5y ago
  What's a compliance officer, and why are they going to people's homes? > A different approach might have been a used in East Germany if every house the Stasi went into looking for 'undesirables' had the potential for meeting a shotgun. Not everything has to be compared to Nazi Germany. I'll note that the lower possession of guns does have a difference in how we interact with the police, ad how the police interact with everyone else. For instance, Officer-involved shootings are practically non-existent. For that matter, shootings of any kind are practically non-existent. No-knock / SWAT style raids and use of pyrotechnics/flash-bangs/etc are reserved for where there's a lot more evidence that someone has a large number of weapons. Nobody is afraid they might get shot by a police officer because they reached into their glove box or into their pocket. I'm not saying things are all rainbows and unicorns, but still... I don't see how turning up to talk to your representatives with a whole bunch of weapons is going to make the conversation go any better.