4 ms·

Bitcoin is totally useless as a currency because it’s slow, has high transaction fees, and easy to trace. So it’s bad for both regular consumers and criminals a

by habosa 5y ago

Bitcoin is totally useless as a currency because it’s slow, has high transaction fees, and easy to trace. So it’s bad for both regular consumers and criminals alike. Monero is a solid improvement because it has low fees (so far) and is very hard to trace. So it’s popular for criminals or intense privacy types. It’s still far too slow and hard to use to ever be accepted in your local grocery store. It’s also hard to buy with fiat because most exchanges are scared of it. What’s really remarkable is how little any of this has changed since ~2016 which was two crypto boom cycles ago. Every single popular cryptocurrency still has the same massive flaws. They’re all either too traceable, too hard to use, too centralized, too slow, too expensive, or too energy intensive. Most of them are many of those things. In 2010 I was a crypto believer. But the whole space has made so little forward progress in 10+ years. In fact there’s been a lot of backwards progress. Mostly all that’s happened is a lot of people have become obscenely rich from speculation, scams, or the intersection of those two things. Those of us who hoped for a new way to pay for things in real life are still waiting.

New_California 5y ago
You are correct on the Bitcoin-is-easy-to-trace point but transactions in the Bitcoin Lightning Network are instant and very cheap. Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency with guaranteed-not-to-change monetary policy and supply cap. That's because Bitcoin as a whole is uniquely hard to change. Monero is great but easy to change and so not a reliable store of value. Bitcoin and Monero need each other badly.
- tromp 5y ago
  In a few decades, when the block subsidy dwindles to insignificance, Bitcoin relies on a constant backlog of high fee paying transactions to provide security. If that cannot be maintained and Bitcoin becomes prone to 51% attacks, then one can imagine Bitcoin adding a tail emission. A cryptocurrency with a fixed emission of 1 coin per second forever is more guaranteed never to change, as it is already as simple, non-arbitrary and fair as possible.
  - New_California 5y ago
    No, Bitcoin will never add tail emission, because 21m cap is the very definition of Bitcoin. If enough transaction fees won't come then Bitcoin would have failed. Monero is changing (hard-forking) regularly, so your point is broken on arrival - and I am saying this as Monero proponent. I love Monero but it is easy to change.
    - rtkwe 5y ago
      Then question is who/what will be providing the large number of paid on chain transactions required to maintain mining operations if Lightning takes over the majority of transactions? Your answer is kind of having it both ways Lightning makes transactions instant for users but there’s still enough transactions and thus fees on chain to provide enough mining revenue to protect against 51% attacks.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  > Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency with guaranteed-not-to-change monetary policy and supply cap. BCH didn't win, but it could have. It is not clear to me that BTC will never change monetary policy.
  - New_California 5y ago
    BTC is monetary policy. People can hard-fork away with any monetary policy but that simply won't be Bitcoin. Would Bitcoin remain dominant over altcoin with changed monetary policy - that is another matter - and indeed not 100% certain.
- lawn 5y ago
  > Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency with guaranteed-not-to-change monetary policy and supply cap. That's because Bitcoin as a whole is uniquely hard to change. This is the kind of crap Bitcoin maximalists love to push, but there's nothing unique about Bitcoin.
  - New_California 5y ago
    Community is unique. You can't clone the community.
    - lawn 5y ago
      Said community changed the focus from digital cash to speculation first, and celebrate it as a success because "it makes it hard to change". And it's now celebrating centralized solutions as some sort of progress. Some community.
- thesz 5y ago
  For lightning network to serve more or less realistic amount of people and businesses, it needs to either have inordinate amount of channels (one-to-one) or it will have routing and fees may go up then, several times up. Lightning network transactions may end up not as cheap as they are right now.
boogerlad 5y ago
The fees will remain low in terms of fiat value assuming that if the price goes up, activity goes up due to Monero's adaptive blocksize. See https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/12729/when-monero-is-worth-10-000-will-fees-in-xmr-be-the-same-or-lower-higher https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/12729/when-monero... Regarding the speed, many believe that instant / unconfirmed transactions are safe for day to day activities up to 10000USD. It's very difficult to double spend or inject numerous conflicting malicious transactions in hopes that the victim sees a legitimate transaction but a fraudulent transaction gets mined. Regarding the ease of use, have you tried featherwallet.org or mymonero.com for mobile?
- smk_ 5y ago
  This view seems to imply the double spend problem wasn’t really a problem after all, which seems to invalidate the reason why a peer to peer proof of work/stake system is implemented from the start.
nobrains 5y ago
>> Bitcoin is totally useless as a currency because it’s slow, has high transaction fees... No longer true for slow and high transaction fees, after the lightning network. With the lightning network, it is FAST and much LESS transaction fees. Oh, and the lightning network is no longer a pipe-dream. It is here and actively in use. If you sincerely want to try it, try using the Breez wallet https://breez.technology/ https://breez.technology/
husamia 5y ago
you missed the governance, smart contracts bit.

by habosa 5y ago

New_California 5y ago

You are correct on the Bitcoin-is-easy-to-trace point but transactions in the Bitcoin Lightning Network are instant and very cheap. Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency with guaranteed-not-to-change monetary policy and supply cap. That's because Bitcoin as a whole is uniquely hard to change. Monero is great but easy to change and so not a reliable store of value. Bitcoin and Monero need each other badly.

tromp 5y ago
In a few decades, when the block subsidy dwindles to insignificance, Bitcoin relies on a constant backlog of high fee paying transactions to provide security. If that cannot be maintained and Bitcoin becomes prone to 51% attacks, then one can imagine Bitcoin adding a tail emission. A cryptocurrency with a fixed emission of 1 coin per second forever is more guaranteed never to change, as it is already as simple, non-arbitrary and fair as possible.
- New_California 5y ago
  No, Bitcoin will never add tail emission, because 21m cap is the very definition of Bitcoin. If enough transaction fees won't come then Bitcoin would have failed. Monero is changing (hard-forking) regularly, so your point is broken on arrival - and I am saying this as Monero proponent. I love Monero but it is easy to change.
  - rtkwe 5y ago
    Then question is who/what will be providing the large number of paid on chain transactions required to maintain mining operations if Lightning takes over the majority of transactions? Your answer is kind of having it both ways Lightning makes transactions instant for users but there’s still enough transactions and thus fees on chain to provide enough mining revenue to protect against 51% attacks.
UncleMeat 5y ago
> Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency with guaranteed-not-to-change monetary policy and supply cap. BCH didn't win, but it could have. It is not clear to me that BTC will never change monetary policy.
- New_California 5y ago
  BTC is monetary policy. People can hard-fork away with any monetary policy but that simply won't be Bitcoin. Would Bitcoin remain dominant over altcoin with changed monetary policy - that is another matter - and indeed not 100% certain.
lawn 5y ago
> Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency with guaranteed-not-to-change monetary policy and supply cap. That's because Bitcoin as a whole is uniquely hard to change. This is the kind of crap Bitcoin maximalists love to push, but there's nothing unique about Bitcoin.
- New_California 5y ago
  Community is unique. You can't clone the community.
  - lawn 5y ago
    Said community changed the focus from digital cash to speculation first, and celebrate it as a success because "it makes it hard to change". And it's now celebrating centralized solutions as some sort of progress. Some community.
thesz 5y ago
For lightning network to serve more or less realistic amount of people and businesses, it needs to either have inordinate amount of channels (one-to-one) or it will have routing and fees may go up then, several times up. Lightning network transactions may end up not as cheap as they are right now.

boogerlad 5y ago

The fees will remain low in terms of fiat value assuming that if the price goes up, activity goes up due to Monero's adaptive blocksize. See https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/12729/when-monero-is-worth-10-000-will-fees-in-xmr-be-the-same-or-lower-higher https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/12729/when-monero... Regarding the speed, many believe that instant / unconfirmed transactions are safe for day to day activities up to 10000USD. It's very difficult to double spend or inject numerous conflicting malicious transactions in hopes that the victim sees a legitimate transaction but a fraudulent transaction gets mined. Regarding the ease of use, have you tried featherwallet.org or mymonero.com for mobile?

smk_ 5y ago
This view seems to imply the double spend problem wasn’t really a problem after all, which seems to invalidate the reason why a peer to peer proof of work/stake system is implemented from the start.

nobrains 5y ago

>> Bitcoin is totally useless as a currency because it’s slow, has high transaction fees... No longer true for slow and high transaction fees, after the lightning network. With the lightning network, it is FAST and much LESS transaction fees. Oh, and the lightning network is no longer a pipe-dream. It is here and actively in use. If you sincerely want to try it, try using the Breez wallet https://breez.technology/ https://breez.technology/

husamia 5y ago

you missed the governance, smart contracts bit.