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Intuit lobbied to keep the tax system complicated. In theory the IRS could do your taxes for you and ask for corrections. For most people, they have all the inf

Intuit lobbied to keep the tax system complicated. In theory the IRS could do your taxes for you and ask for corrections. For most people, they have all the information needed to do taxes and would save people a lot of stress and money.

antupis 5y ago
Yeah prefilled tax forms are like defecto in Europe.
- lsiebert 5y ago
  Think you mean defacto :-D
  - hirako2000 5y ago
    It has also the defect of not just calculating, it takes it from the source, and employers are obliged to comply. It's less headache for tax payers, but makes it harder to not pay. Which until so long ago wasn't even an obligation. Soon we will be getting the automatic calculation, for a fee, and taken from source. It's already starting to happen, medium and other digital economies are doing that. Forced to collect from source , and they pass on the cost of the system to tax payers. If we don't attack the idea of tax, I think it will never end.
    - hirako2000 5y ago
      Oh, those who think taxing is legitimate, downvote all you want. Take a moment to explain this to those who refused from the get go to go around the world spending a portion of this money to bomb millions of people, costing over 2 trillion dollars in Afghanistan alone, money I think would have been sufficient to fund a hospital for everyone who needs it in the entire continent.
      - thanatos519 5y ago
        You're not wrong. Please don't conflate taxation as a concept with the actions of a corrupt plutocratic prison state like the USA. In the more socialist capitalist countries, taxation is an effective way to mitigate the effects of the parasitic merchant class.
        hirako2000 5y ago
        Like where? I m happy to look into a few you would consider a success.
      - SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
        Looking at the behaviour of the United States government, I sympathise with the anti-tax Libertarian types. The obscene misuse of tax money while infrastructure crumbles is plain to see. Dollar for dollar, American citizens seem to get less for their tax than most other developed countries and far, far more of it goes towards the military budget which, as you point out, is used in aggression. But don't make the mistake of thinking the American experience is the universal one - one of the reasons these anti-tax arguments fall on deaf ears internationally is that a lot of countries actually do use tax to look after their citizens to some degree. One of the reasons Libertarianism never caught on globally is because there's little appetite for dismantling government institutions that are, for the most part, working. The problem isn't tax, it's the behaviour and culture of the government.
        hirako2000 5y ago
        I don't make that mistake. Here are a few different countries i live in demonstrating the same issues: France: over 20% vat, about 50% on income for median pay. Uk: 20% vat, over 40% of median pay. Malaysia: 10% gst Vietnam : 10% gst, over 33% income Those aren't the only taxes, just the most obvious ones. Western and Asian countries, from very developed, to somewhat developed, and under developed. Please show me where those taxes have benefited the people. Any tax critic in here is always downvoted. I only ever saw 2 comments as a response. Why is it most dont see that taxes are just a way to fund barely checked agencies causing either havoc, or failing at their task?
    - olau 5y ago
      Just like taxes can be used to kill people in foreign countries, it can be used to save people from fire and illness, educate them, etc. When you try to defect from paying tax, you may have in your mind the people not killed with your money, but others in society will (correctly) recognize the people not saved with your money and wish to punish you. This is basic tit-for-tat group behavior. Tit-for-tat makes it possible to solve the prisoner's dilemma cooperatively. I don't think the downvotes should necessarily be interpreted as punishment, though, it could also be because people think the above rationale is so obvious that your post has negative value (little information, noisy).
      - hirako2000 5y ago
        I would gladly take the positive aspects, but it isn't obvious to me those are significant, I think they are part of the problem. I'm sorry if the questioning of taxes is noisy information, and I glad you took the time to answer with arguments. I agree there is a group behavior at play there. You mention education, my own education was nearly in full paid by tax payers. I only had to sustain myself during all these education years, and I spent the rest of my life re educating myself, which came at lower cost but greater effort than getting educated by non government funded bodies. Fire and health are different issues, which I'm sure would also be handled better than with public funds taken by force. Informational maybe, but the taxing system we have today wasn't what founded America and made the great country it had become. We can look at specific issues such as turbofax and questionable lobbies, but these are plugged onto a taxing dogma that would need to be discussed more than the intricacies of its implementation. I appreciate your explained view, I can only agree with what you've taken the time to point out.
    - canadianfella 5y ago
      Defect?
- nkmnz 5y ago
  Ehm… no?
- luckylion 5y ago
  Those don't exist in Germany. I don't know about other countries, but that's already 10+% of Europe where they're not a thing.
  - collaborative 5y ago
    I think this is a case of UK=Europe, even though UK's claim of not being "European"
    - Accacin 5y ago
      Not sure what you mean here, in the UK we do not have to do anything for our taxes. They are automatically handled, and in the rare case you need a refund, it's automatic and if you paid less for whatever reason, they just increase your taxes over the next 12 months or whatever.
  - tibbetts 5y ago
    If you have only wage income in Germany, as I understand it, there is no need to file a tax return. So you are correct there is no “pre-filled form.” But the system is simple and automated enough that a great many people don’t have to do anything.
  - lis 5y ago
    Maybe we are talking about different things, but you can definitely pre-fill your tax form with employer and social security data in Germany. In that case, you only have to add information if you want to claim deductions higher than the "Werbungskostenpauschale". Things usually only get difficult when you are self-employed or have difficult deductions.
    - luckylion 5y ago
      Sure, you can do that, or you can have a software do that. But you won't get it filled out by the state + "sign here if everything looks okay". Plus you always need extra forms for savings etc.
- rapnie 5y ago
  Yep, filing tax in The Netherlands for many people has become a 5min. click-through + submit experience.
throwawayboise 5y ago
For W2 employees yes, but they don't have the info on self-employment and business income, which is quite a lot of people.
SavantIdiot 5y ago
I know, and I don't disagree with that. Intuit has been an boil on the ass of tax code, but it's got a lot of boils.

antupis 5y ago

Yeah prefilled tax forms are like defecto in Europe.

lsiebert 5y ago
Think you mean defacto :-D
- hirako2000 5y ago
  It has also the defect of not just calculating, it takes it from the source, and employers are obliged to comply. It's less headache for tax payers, but makes it harder to not pay. Which until so long ago wasn't even an obligation. Soon we will be getting the automatic calculation, for a fee, and taken from source. It's already starting to happen, medium and other digital economies are doing that. Forced to collect from source , and they pass on the cost of the system to tax payers. If we don't attack the idea of tax, I think it will never end.
  - hirako2000 5y ago
    Oh, those who think taxing is legitimate, downvote all you want. Take a moment to explain this to those who refused from the get go to go around the world spending a portion of this money to bomb millions of people, costing over 2 trillion dollars in Afghanistan alone, money I think would have been sufficient to fund a hospital for everyone who needs it in the entire continent.
    - thanatos519 5y ago
      You're not wrong. Please don't conflate taxation as a concept with the actions of a corrupt plutocratic prison state like the USA. In the more socialist capitalist countries, taxation is an effective way to mitigate the effects of the parasitic merchant class.
      - hirako2000 5y ago
        Like where? I m happy to look into a few you would consider a success.
    - SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
      Looking at the behaviour of the United States government, I sympathise with the anti-tax Libertarian types. The obscene misuse of tax money while infrastructure crumbles is plain to see. Dollar for dollar, American citizens seem to get less for their tax than most other developed countries and far, far more of it goes towards the military budget which, as you point out, is used in aggression. But don't make the mistake of thinking the American experience is the universal one - one of the reasons these anti-tax arguments fall on deaf ears internationally is that a lot of countries actually do use tax to look after their citizens to some degree. One of the reasons Libertarianism never caught on globally is because there's little appetite for dismantling government institutions that are, for the most part, working. The problem isn't tax, it's the behaviour and culture of the government.
      - hirako2000 5y ago
        I don't make that mistake. Here are a few different countries i live in demonstrating the same issues: France: over 20% vat, about 50% on income for median pay. Uk: 20% vat, over 40% of median pay. Malaysia: 10% gst Vietnam : 10% gst, over 33% income Those aren't the only taxes, just the most obvious ones. Western and Asian countries, from very developed, to somewhat developed, and under developed. Please show me where those taxes have benefited the people. Any tax critic in here is always downvoted. I only ever saw 2 comments as a response. Why is it most dont see that taxes are just a way to fund barely checked agencies causing either havoc, or failing at their task?
  - olau 5y ago
    Just like taxes can be used to kill people in foreign countries, it can be used to save people from fire and illness, educate them, etc. When you try to defect from paying tax, you may have in your mind the people not killed with your money, but others in society will (correctly) recognize the people not saved with your money and wish to punish you. This is basic tit-for-tat group behavior. Tit-for-tat makes it possible to solve the prisoner's dilemma cooperatively. I don't think the downvotes should necessarily be interpreted as punishment, though, it could also be because people think the above rationale is so obvious that your post has negative value (little information, noisy).
    - hirako2000 5y ago
      I would gladly take the positive aspects, but it isn't obvious to me those are significant, I think they are part of the problem. I'm sorry if the questioning of taxes is noisy information, and I glad you took the time to answer with arguments. I agree there is a group behavior at play there. You mention education, my own education was nearly in full paid by tax payers. I only had to sustain myself during all these education years, and I spent the rest of my life re educating myself, which came at lower cost but greater effort than getting educated by non government funded bodies. Fire and health are different issues, which I'm sure would also be handled better than with public funds taken by force. Informational maybe, but the taxing system we have today wasn't what founded America and made the great country it had become. We can look at specific issues such as turbofax and questionable lobbies, but these are plugged onto a taxing dogma that would need to be discussed more than the intricacies of its implementation. I appreciate your explained view, I can only agree with what you've taken the time to point out.
  - canadianfella 5y ago
    Defect?
nkmnz 5y ago
Ehm… no?
luckylion 5y ago
Those don't exist in Germany. I don't know about other countries, but that's already 10+% of Europe where they're not a thing.
- collaborative 5y ago
  I think this is a case of UK=Europe, even though UK's claim of not being "European"
  - Accacin 5y ago
    Not sure what you mean here, in the UK we do not have to do anything for our taxes. They are automatically handled, and in the rare case you need a refund, it's automatic and if you paid less for whatever reason, they just increase your taxes over the next 12 months or whatever.
- tibbetts 5y ago
  If you have only wage income in Germany, as I understand it, there is no need to file a tax return. So you are correct there is no “pre-filled form.” But the system is simple and automated enough that a great many people don’t have to do anything.
- lis 5y ago
  Maybe we are talking about different things, but you can definitely pre-fill your tax form with employer and social security data in Germany. In that case, you only have to add information if you want to claim deductions higher than the "Werbungskostenpauschale". Things usually only get difficult when you are self-employed or have difficult deductions.
  - luckylion 5y ago
    Sure, you can do that, or you can have a software do that. But you won't get it filled out by the state + "sign here if everything looks okay". Plus you always need extra forms for savings etc.
rapnie 5y ago
Yep, filing tax in The Netherlands for many people has become a 5min. click-through + submit experience.

throwawayboise 5y ago

For W2 employees yes, but they don't have the info on self-employment and business income, which is quite a lot of people.

SavantIdiot 5y ago

I know, and I don't disagree with that. Intuit has been an boil on the ass of tax code, but it's got a lot of boils.