3 ms·

You know what else is similarly opaque, hard to trace, anonymous and still legal tender? Cash.

darau1 5y ago
True, but the key difference is that cash must be physically transported.
MichaelMoser123 5y ago
I am not sure about the 'hard to trace' part. they could track the serial numbers on banknotes, for example when an ATM is dispensing the banknotes. Also there are people who persue the tracking banknotes as a hobby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_bill_tracking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_bill_tracking
- 0des 5y ago
  It's comparing apples and oranges though isnt it? Monero is fungible, cash is not.
  - gojomo 5y ago
    Except for the de minimus overhead of making-change/breaking-big-bills, physical cash is usually described as 'fungible' in the sense meaningful for economics: each $N is completely equivalent to any other $N – na matter its history or how the tally was subdivided/recombined over time.
    - 0des 5y ago
      That's not what fungible means though. When you start printing numbers on them, they're no longer fungible.
      - gojomo 5y ago
        Perhaps pedantically from a particular viewpoint, & if banks used a blacklist of certain bill numbers. But to financial economists, cash is a textbook example of a ‘fungible’ thing. So a statement like – “Monero is fungible, cash is not.” – implies you’re using peculiar definitions.
        0des 5y ago
        Fungibility means that two things are mutually interchangeable on all levels. I cannot take cash into a bank that came from a heist or a covert drug buy from the authorities for example, I'd go to jail. The term 'marked bills' exist because cash is not fungible, not all bills are equal. This is the binary quality of fungibility. There are no shades of fungibility, there is no "well this is X's definition of it".
        gojomo 5y ago
        You are free to write as many words as you’d like on your idiosyncratic beliefs, but the fields of law, finance, & economics, as practiced & documented, disagree with you: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fungibility.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fungibility.asp (It is interesting to think of the ways traditional cash might not meet a physicist’s definition, or assumptions under which Monero might somehow be more fungible or less fungible than physical cash, on a spectrum richer than a pure binary. But if you remain oblivious to what the word commonly means to others, you’re failing a bit at communication.)
RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago
And it has to be transported physically so there is actually a limit to how much illegal stuff you can do. There is a reason that the scams and ransomware use Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency instead of cash.
- pibechorro 5y ago
  Ransomware is largely the fault of those institutions not keeping backups and having atrocious security practices.
ryan_lane 5y ago
You need to physically transfer cash, and this is why it's difficult to use for things like ransom. You know what makes it really easy to ransom a hospital during a pandemic? Monero. You know what makes it easy to ransom a school, leaking personal information of children in the process? Monero.

True, but the key difference is that cash must be physically transported.

I am not sure about the 'hard to trace' part. they could track the serial numbers on banknotes, for example when an ATM is dispensing the banknotes. Also there are people who persue the tracking banknotes as a hobby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_bill_tracking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_bill_tracking

0des 5y ago
It's comparing apples and oranges though isnt it? Monero is fungible, cash is not.
- gojomo 5y ago
  Except for the de minimus overhead of making-change/breaking-big-bills, physical cash is usually described as 'fungible' in the sense meaningful for economics: each $N is completely equivalent to any other $N – na matter its history or how the tally was subdivided/recombined over time.
  - 0des 5y ago
    That's not what fungible means though. When you start printing numbers on them, they're no longer fungible.
    - gojomo 5y ago
      Perhaps pedantically from a particular viewpoint, & if banks used a blacklist of certain bill numbers. But to financial economists, cash is a textbook example of a ‘fungible’ thing. So a statement like – “Monero is fungible, cash is not.” – implies you’re using peculiar definitions.
      - 0des 5y ago
        Fungibility means that two things are mutually interchangeable on all levels. I cannot take cash into a bank that came from a heist or a covert drug buy from the authorities for example, I'd go to jail. The term 'marked bills' exist because cash is not fungible, not all bills are equal. This is the binary quality of fungibility. There are no shades of fungibility, there is no "well this is X's definition of it".
        gojomo 5y ago
        You are free to write as many words as you’d like on your idiosyncratic beliefs, but the fields of law, finance, & economics, as practiced & documented, disagree with you: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fungibility.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fungibility.asp (It is interesting to think of the ways traditional cash might not meet a physicist’s definition, or assumptions under which Monero might somehow be more fungible or less fungible than physical cash, on a spectrum richer than a pure binary. But if you remain oblivious to what the word commonly means to others, you’re failing a bit at communication.)

RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago

And it has to be transported physically so there is actually a limit to how much illegal stuff you can do. There is a reason that the scams and ransomware use Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency instead of cash.

pibechorro 5y ago
Ransomware is largely the fault of those institutions not keeping backups and having atrocious security practices.

ryan_lane 5y ago

You need to physically transfer cash, and this is why it's difficult to use for things like ransom. You know what makes it really easy to ransom a hospital during a pandemic? Monero. You know what makes it easy to ransom a school, leaking personal information of children in the process? Monero.