5 ms·

Arguing over which part of late stage capitalism is morally questionable is a bit like arguing over the correct length of curl in your powdered wig. If they ha

Arguing over which part of late stage capitalism is morally questionable is a bit like arguing over the correct length of curl in your powdered wig. If they had gone public instead, Intuit could just as easily have bought up all the shares and reached the same end goal.

gerdesj 5y ago
OK, I'll bite. I am one of three owners of a roughly £1-1.5M pa t/o company in the UK (depends on the wind direction.) We've operated for 21 years now - it's IT Services, mainly consultancy. We've always offered a few Class B shares to time served employees in addition to salary. Not many shares but some. I'm not too sure what on earth "late stage capitalism" means but I do know that my little firm trundles on quite happily and works slightly better for the extra incentive that directly contributing equals directly earning. We have never insisted that shareholders need work extra hours or whatever. I kick people out of the office if they work too late. Work life balance is important. Is offering or not offering equity something that can be considered within the realms of "morally questionable"? A business is a business and a contract is a contract. When you take up employment within a business, you engage with a contract. If the contract offered is not one you like, you are not obliged to accept it. The last two sentences are rather polarised and I accept that the real world is rather more nuanced when you consider individual cases. Can you really call a mutually agreed equity arrangement as "morally questionable"? You might as well describe working for a salary as morally questionable too. Anyway, whose morals are we considering and what standards do they espouse? Morals don't live in a vacuum nor do morals stay attached to a single concept. Your "morals" may well not be the same as mine! We (my little company) are quite boring, rather small and won't ever feature in a how to take over the world, unless 10^-3 unicorn suddenly becomes exciting.
- caoilte 5y ago
  Congratulations on your success in life. I wasn't criticizing people like you (although this thread does seem to have hit a nerve). I was critizing the assumption that you are morally culpable (or indeed praise worthy) for how you run your company. You are able to be a good boss and that's great. In fact it's probably good business to be. But you could just as easily have been born the inheritor of a sweatshop garment factory in Bangladesh and unable to make a profit unless you employed children under appalling conditions. The economic conditions dictate the possible relationships with employees. As profits decline (late stage capitalism) in different economic sectors the options narrow. In the future your economic sector may become the target of a wave of consolidation. If a competitor starts buying up all the competition and adopting a more aggressive business model with lower prices you will be forced to adapt.
  - gerdesj 5y ago
    "In the future your economic sector may become the target of a wave of consolidation." It's called Microsoft 8) Oh well, this MD rocks Arch Linux on his laptop and workstation. I put up with Exchange thanks to Evolution (and recently: Kmail.) I login via winbind-nss and leave a trail of Kerberos tickets wherever I go. "I was critizing the assumption that you are morally culpable (or indeed praise worthy) for how you run your company." Sorry, I read your comment differently.

gerdesj 5y ago

OK, I'll bite. I am one of three owners of a roughly £1-1.5M pa t/o company in the UK (depends on the wind direction.) We've operated for 21 years now - it's IT Services, mainly consultancy. We've always offered a few Class B shares to time served employees in addition to salary. Not many shares but some. I'm not too sure what on earth "late stage capitalism" means but I do know that my little firm trundles on quite happily and works slightly better for the extra incentive that directly contributing equals directly earning. We have never insisted that shareholders need work extra hours or whatever. I kick people out of the office if they work too late. Work life balance is important. Is offering or not offering equity something that can be considered within the realms of "morally questionable"? A business is a business and a contract is a contract. When you take up employment within a business, you engage with a contract. If the contract offered is not one you like, you are not obliged to accept it. The last two sentences are rather polarised and I accept that the real world is rather more nuanced when you consider individual cases. Can you really call a mutually agreed equity arrangement as "morally questionable"? You might as well describe working for a salary as morally questionable too. Anyway, whose morals are we considering and what standards do they espouse? Morals don't live in a vacuum nor do morals stay attached to a single concept. Your "morals" may well not be the same as mine! We (my little company) are quite boring, rather small and won't ever feature in a how to take over the world, unless 10^-3 unicorn suddenly becomes exciting.

caoilte 5y ago
Congratulations on your success in life. I wasn't criticizing people like you (although this thread does seem to have hit a nerve). I was critizing the assumption that you are morally culpable (or indeed praise worthy) for how you run your company. You are able to be a good boss and that's great. In fact it's probably good business to be. But you could just as easily have been born the inheritor of a sweatshop garment factory in Bangladesh and unable to make a profit unless you employed children under appalling conditions. The economic conditions dictate the possible relationships with employees. As profits decline (late stage capitalism) in different economic sectors the options narrow. In the future your economic sector may become the target of a wave of consolidation. If a competitor starts buying up all the competition and adopting a more aggressive business model with lower prices you will be forced to adapt.
- gerdesj 5y ago
  "In the future your economic sector may become the target of a wave of consolidation." It's called Microsoft 8) Oh well, this MD rocks Arch Linux on his laptop and workstation. I put up with Exchange thanks to Evolution (and recently: Kmail.) I login via winbind-nss and leave a trail of Kerberos tickets wherever I go. "I was critizing the assumption that you are morally culpable (or indeed praise worthy) for how you run your company." Sorry, I read your comment differently.