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Nothing about high school is relevant to the real world. At no other point in your life are you in forced proximity with random people within your age cohort, w

Nothing about high school is relevant to the real world. At no other point in your life are you in forced proximity with random people within your age cohort, who have no responsibilities outside of school work and maximizing their social status. This is an unnatural environment and nothing about it is necessary to becoming a functioning adult. The benefits that high school does bring to social development is not exclusive to high school. But it brings so many detrimental experiences as to be a net negative in many cases.

Avicebron 5y ago
I'd be interested in what you describe as detrimental experiences and why they potentially weren't net positive in ways that you might not immediately recognize
- qsort 5y ago
  Anything can 'potentially be net positive in ways you might not immediately recognize'. There is literally no event that description does not apply to. In many cases the 'negative experiences' are daily abuse. I myself had a horrible and painful time in high school, but listening to people of various backgrounds I concluded it's pretty much hit or miss. I can't generalize from my negative experience, but you can't generalize from your positive one either.
- tonyarkles 5y ago
  Getting slammed into lockers, having people steal your notebooks, having half your friends spontaneously turn on you... I'm reading into your comment a little bit and projecting my own thoughts of "these things might have been character-building." That might be true, but for some they could also end up causing PTSD/similar things, difficultly trusting people, severe low-self-confidence, etc.
- hackinthebochs 5y ago
  Specifically the forced proximity with people who may bully you, or encourage damaging or anti-social behavior, as well as the environment where social status, and the avenues available to gain it as a high school student, is the end-all of your existence. How many bad habits are learned in high school, from catty behavior, to acting out for attention, to being physically dominant, to spending money on flashy gear, to gain status? How many environments outside of high school do these behaviors result in meaningful, lasting status gains? Not many, at least none that can be considered healthy environments. If the goal of high school is to prepare kids for adulthood, they don't do a good job of it. Granted, not every school is like this and not everyone has these experiences. But putting teens in a social pressure-cooker among their age cohort will result in some very unnatural local optimums for behavior.
  - Avicebron 5y ago
    While I am not and won't dismiss your personal experiences with high school, but I think there is value in that pressure cooker environment, even if unpleasant. College and the workforce/academia is rife with similar bad habits that I can see myself not being prepared for if I hadn't had a dose of the petty viciousness (albeit with somewhat less consequence in the long term). It's one thing to be emotionally abused by some catty behavior in a setting that is less likely to screw your life over or at least gives you a chance of redemption post hs. Than to find out that even worse cattiness exists within your PhD program and now you're royally screwed over with it becoming harder and harder to get a fresh start.
  - dleslie 5y ago
    > Specifically the forced proximity with people who may bully you, or encourage damaging or anti-social behavior, as well as the environment where social status, and the avenues available to gain it as a high school student, is the end-all of your existence. ... How is that different than an office?
dleslie 5y ago
> who have no responsibilities outside of school work and maximizing their social status. I suppose this might be true in middle-class, suburban areas; but where I grew up, and I imagine in similar places elsewhere, there were plenty of working teenagers who held responsibility for their family's well-being. They worked in the family corner store/restaurant/shop/farm during the weekends and evenings. Others provided primary care for family members; their younger siblings or infirm adults.
majormajor 5y ago
Let's certainly not make it more like the internet, where you can set things up so you only see those who agree with you already and disdain everyone else without risk of confrontation.
antasvara 5y ago
>Nothing about high school is relevant to the real world. I wouldn't say "nothing." Going to school 5 days a week mimics a workweek, even if the timing is off. Being with random people of your age group in close proximity is a little extreme, but it has some similarities to working in an office with a random assortment of personalities. Having tasks assigned to you that you then have to complete isn't exactly how workplaces function, but having a baseline ability to complete work that isn't your favorite is a valuable skill. Now, all of these things are taken to the extreme in high school and that should be adjusted. However, saying that none of high school is relevant is a stretch.
elihu 5y ago
> At no other point in your life are you in forced proximity with random people within your age cohort Maybe this is a shortcoming of our modern world outside of school, rather than a shortcoming of schools. I rather think it's a point in public school's favor that students attend the same classes, do the same work, and are judged according to the same standards as their peers regardless if their parents are well-off, middle-class, or poor. (That's the ideal, anyways. There are always exceptions.) Having exposure to a wide swath of humanity at a young age is, I think, quite valuable. It's easier to hate people you've never met.

Avicebron 5y ago

I'd be interested in what you describe as detrimental experiences and why they potentially weren't net positive in ways that you might not immediately recognize

qsort 5y ago
Anything can 'potentially be net positive in ways you might not immediately recognize'. There is literally no event that description does not apply to. In many cases the 'negative experiences' are daily abuse. I myself had a horrible and painful time in high school, but listening to people of various backgrounds I concluded it's pretty much hit or miss. I can't generalize from my negative experience, but you can't generalize from your positive one either.
tonyarkles 5y ago
Getting slammed into lockers, having people steal your notebooks, having half your friends spontaneously turn on you... I'm reading into your comment a little bit and projecting my own thoughts of "these things might have been character-building." That might be true, but for some they could also end up causing PTSD/similar things, difficultly trusting people, severe low-self-confidence, etc.
hackinthebochs 5y ago
Specifically the forced proximity with people who may bully you, or encourage damaging or anti-social behavior, as well as the environment where social status, and the avenues available to gain it as a high school student, is the end-all of your existence. How many bad habits are learned in high school, from catty behavior, to acting out for attention, to being physically dominant, to spending money on flashy gear, to gain status? How many environments outside of high school do these behaviors result in meaningful, lasting status gains? Not many, at least none that can be considered healthy environments. If the goal of high school is to prepare kids for adulthood, they don't do a good job of it. Granted, not every school is like this and not everyone has these experiences. But putting teens in a social pressure-cooker among their age cohort will result in some very unnatural local optimums for behavior.
- Avicebron 5y ago
  While I am not and won't dismiss your personal experiences with high school, but I think there is value in that pressure cooker environment, even if unpleasant. College and the workforce/academia is rife with similar bad habits that I can see myself not being prepared for if I hadn't had a dose of the petty viciousness (albeit with somewhat less consequence in the long term). It's one thing to be emotionally abused by some catty behavior in a setting that is less likely to screw your life over or at least gives you a chance of redemption post hs. Than to find out that even worse cattiness exists within your PhD program and now you're royally screwed over with it becoming harder and harder to get a fresh start.
- dleslie 5y ago
  > Specifically the forced proximity with people who may bully you, or encourage damaging or anti-social behavior, as well as the environment where social status, and the avenues available to gain it as a high school student, is the end-all of your existence. ... How is that different than an office?

dleslie 5y ago

> who have no responsibilities outside of school work and maximizing their social status. I suppose this might be true in middle-class, suburban areas; but where I grew up, and I imagine in similar places elsewhere, there were plenty of working teenagers who held responsibility for their family's well-being. They worked in the family corner store/restaurant/shop/farm during the weekends and evenings. Others provided primary care for family members; their younger siblings or infirm adults.

majormajor 5y ago

Let's certainly not make it more like the internet, where you can set things up so you only see those who agree with you already and disdain everyone else without risk of confrontation.

antasvara 5y ago

>Nothing about high school is relevant to the real world. I wouldn't say "nothing." Going to school 5 days a week mimics a workweek, even if the timing is off. Being with random people of your age group in close proximity is a little extreme, but it has some similarities to working in an office with a random assortment of personalities. Having tasks assigned to you that you then have to complete isn't exactly how workplaces function, but having a baseline ability to complete work that isn't your favorite is a valuable skill. Now, all of these things are taken to the extreme in high school and that should be adjusted. However, saying that none of high school is relevant is a stretch.

elihu 5y ago

> At no other point in your life are you in forced proximity with random people within your age cohort Maybe this is a shortcoming of our modern world outside of school, rather than a shortcoming of schools. I rather think it's a point in public school's favor that students attend the same classes, do the same work, and are judged according to the same standards as their peers regardless if their parents are well-off, middle-class, or poor. (That's the ideal, anyways. There are always exceptions.) Having exposure to a wide swath of humanity at a young age is, I think, quite valuable. It's easier to hate people you've never met.